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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Mercury Telecom


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Unless back in August poor old Buzby was talking to himself, it seems that yet again another forum has removed posts from a thread about Mercury Telecoms. It makes me wonder just what this company is trying to hide?

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I've actually got the full thread, so I know I wasn't imagining the conversation! It's a shame the forum software sneakily renumbers the posts as if nothing has been altered.

 

Now, I can replace the missing items in an omnibus posting, would a mod like to agree to this, or explain why the intervening posts were removed without comment?

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If posts are removed then you would not be permitted to repost them.

 

There may be many reasons why posts are withdrawn and we don't leave comments, nor will we. We simply look to maintain the best interests of the forum.

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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If posts are removed then you would not be permitted to repost them.

 

Really? And how would I be aware of such removal? My posts are intact and as I have recieved no CAGBot PMs advising the these items have become 'unapproved', it would be reasonable to assume that there has been a software glitch and they've simply dropped off - in pretty much the same mysterious way I lost 3 reputation blobs when a red reputation mark appeared, only to disappear with nobody supposedly having any clue as to what had happened, apart from being 'one of those things'.

 

Why not be pro-active and check - I'm quite happy to restore the missing posts in an omnibus message, unless you care to confirm that CAG has indeed removed them without comment, in which case I'll not restore them. I can't be more helpful than that.

 

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Really? And how would I be aware of such removal?
Errrr, by the fact you can't see them anymore?

 

My posts are intact and as I have recieved no CAGBot PMs advising the these items have become 'unapproved',
Well, if they're not your posts, and by your admission, your own posts are intact, why would YOU receive those CAGbot messages? :-?
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Oh - only insofar as if a removed message had contained a quote from my own message, I would have indeed have received such a removal notice. I'm surprised you find this confusing.

 

But let's not dance round the issue - a message with [EDIT] shown to indicate the removed section is acceptable as far as it goes. To make it disappear as if it never had been there, then renumber the forum posts to make the deletion totally invisible is an abomination.

 

However, since the Forum software is so flaky in many respects - the situation described would clearly be attributed to yet another glitch, so a restoration would be seen by many as a public service. As TPRG clearly have not come out and stated there HAS been a removal, it would be reasonable to assume a database error.

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Oh - only insofar as if a removed message had contained a quote from my own message, I would have indeed have received such a removal notice. I'm surprised you find this confusing.
No, you wouldn't. Believe me, don't believe me, and I can't speak for other forums with other operating software, but you will NOT get a CAGbot if you are not the originator of a post.

But let's not dance round the issue - a message with [EDIT] shown to indicate the removed section is acceptable as far as it goes. To make it disappear as if it never had been there, then renumber the forum posts to make the deletion totally invisible is an abomination.

I wasn't aware there was an issue to dance around. However, I would suggest that any issues with the way the software works when posts have been removed/moderated should be addressed to VBulletin, the creators of said software.

 

However, since the Forum software is so flaky in many respects - the situation described would clearly be attributed to yet another glitch, so a restoration would be seen by many as a public service. As TPRG clearly have not come out and stated there HAS been a removal, it would be reasonable to assume a database error
Personally, I saw J2B's reply as being quite clear that if posts had been removed, noone would be allowed to repost them. The clue is in the sentences: "If posts are removed then you would not be permitted to repost them.

 

There may be many reasons why posts are withdrawn and we don't leave comments, nor will we. We simply look to maintain the best interests of the forum. " :rolleyes:

 

Me, I would work on the assumption that posts have been removed for reasons known to the site's owners and leave it at that. :cool:

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Personally, I saw J2B's reply as being quite clear that if posts had been removed, noone would be allowed to repost them. The clue is in the sentences: "If posts are removed then you would not be permitted to repost them.

 

Do tell me how anyone could be made aware that a post HAD been removed if CAG had not chosen to to at least admit to wielding the electronic equivalent of a blue pen? Anyone could legitimately repost noting that it had somehow disappeared and was being helpful be restoring it.

 

If you are supporting the surreptitious removal of messages because it is in the 'best interests' then cleary such devious tactic does not offend you as it does me. If CAG wished to remove posts, it is entitled to do so as it owns the ball, but to do so in the hope that nobody will notice does the forum, and its members a considerable disservice. If you cannot see this, or believe it not to be an issue, would make me re-evaluate your reasoning of acceptable conduct.

 

If a mod wants to pull a message - do it, but at least own up to it. None of this subterfuge.

 

Me, I would work on the assumption that posts have been removed for reasons known to the site's owners and leave it at that.

 

And risk the credibility of the site and its hard-won reputation? So much for being fearless upholder of truth? Sorry, lets not just remove the bits that offend, we can make them disappear and the punters won't even notice.

 

Having looked at what WAS removed, all I found were verifiable facts, and hardly contentious so perhaps the fearless post remover could at least account for the actions? We'd expect this from the firms we complain about, why should CAG mods be immune? (And it wasn't;t even my posts that were removed!).

 

As for your suggestion that complaints for software glitches should be addressed to vBulletin... I've still not stopped laughing. If you bought a faulty car, would you complain to Ford or the dealer you bought it from? It's not up to me to complain to vBulletin that the s/w CAG uses is buggy or has some naff features. The answer is for CAG to evaluate other products - but please not the one used by MSE.

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It is quite simple - you asked if you could repost those missing (and thank you for asking) and we said no.

 

We are not obliged to explain to anyone why we remove posts, although we would typically do so to the originator.

 

I'm sorry that you seem to view the removal of posts as though it were in some way 'offensive' (my terminology) but this is not intended.

 

We have made the position as clear as it will ever be, so I will not comment any further on this thread in relation to this matter.

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Oh, yawn yawn and more yawn. Laugh, cry, whinge: Buzby, I. don't. care. I don't care what you think. Of me, of how you think this forum is run, and whether you want to imagine great big conspiracies to hide the truth.

 

Yes, my post will probably get CAGbotted and to save your usual primadonna behaviour which makes you think you can bitch about everyone one else, but go crying to mummy the moment you get one back at you, I will report it myself. Since you have said you get notifications, you should still be able to read this anyway.

 

All you found were "verifiable" facts? Well, good for you and thank goodness you're not the one running this place, it would have been shut after 3 weeks.

 

Ok, let me break it down to you in small manageable chunks: Yes, odds are that posts were removed. No, noone has to tell you why. The author of the moderated/removed posts would have notification however and would usually also have had a PM explaining to them why their post(s) had been removed, and that's all you need to know. In the case of some of our slightly more intelligent users, they even usually accept the explanation. As for the other participants on the thread, frankly, it's none of their business. I'd even venture as far as to say that discussing the removal/moderation of those posts with a 3rd person could be a breach of the DPA.

 

And since you are yet again twisting my words (that's new! Not.) I didn't say anything about software "glitches", I said "the way the software works", meaning the way it is programmed to run, ie when posts get removed/moderated, they don't have a post number and so look as if they were never there. That is something which is an integral part of VBulletin, I doubt there is a plug-in to change that. But then, considering that you thought you would get notifs when a post in which you were quoted was moderated, it's hardly shocking that you seem unable to grasp this simple concept.

 

As for your analogy of the car, you are of course yet again totally wrong. If the concept of software is too complicated for you and we need to resort to a car analogy, then a more apt one would be that Vbulletin is the car, CAG the driver and you a passenger. The car works fine, the driver is quite happy with it, but there's always one passenger who has to complain about something or another, isn't there? :rolleyes:

 

Well, I am not a member of the team anymore, which is great as it allows me to finally express my opinion freely instead of tiptoeing around that great ego of yours. I will however use my knowledge of the last 30 months or so behind the scenes to express this clearly: Yes, posts are likely to have been moderated. Get over it. :-D

 

Bookie, out and about to report this post to CAGbot. :-D

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Buzby...

 

The renumbering of posts shows that posts have bee removed. Sometimes, posts are made 'invisible'. So, on another Mercury thread, the post numbers are not consecutive and the 'invisible' posts can only be seen by the original poster (and only when he/she is logged in). In that event, not even the poster is advised of their posts becoming 'invisible'.

 

The poster is also not advised that ALL his/her existing posts (even non-contentious posts) on ALL threads will now be INVISIBLE TO EVERYONE except to themselves; all future posts will also be invisible too. Any search done for posts under the username will find zero matches.

 

Finally, any PMs that user sends NEVER reaches the intended recipient; the presumption is that PMs simply end up in Admin's inbox instead!!!!

 

Now, that really is censorship of the worst kind!

Edited by Computer Bafoon
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Unless back in August poor old Buzby was talking to himself, it seems that yet again another forum has removed posts from a thread about Mercury Telecoms. It makes me wonder just what this company is trying to hide?

 

Gentlemen, Gentlemen,

 

I am sorry that I posted the above as the point seemed to have been lost.

 

Yes, it was meant to point out that the thread had been censored, something I had seen far too often when facts or opinions were posted about a certain company.

 

Like many, even though not involved, I have taken an interest since I first read of the threats made against forums and a certain person of another forum fame who was arrested and had his computers confiscated for a period for posting his accounts of his dealings with a certain company. Sadly he will now not allow any postings on a certain subject, so the bully boy tactics worked.

 

Forums such as this bring these injustices to light, to help and warn all of us and long may they do so. To bow to threats and remove posts when 'true and factual' accounts are posted allows companies to continue to trade in such manner.

 

We are the losers. :(

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Oh, yawn yawn and more yawn. Laugh, cry, whinge: Buzby, I. don't. care. I don't care what you think. Of me, of how you think this forum is run, and whether you want to imagine great big conspiracies to hide the truth.

 

An excellent rant! Funny when you are criticised for supplying misleasing information you never respond... (quite recently you views which eant contrary to the DPA and how wonderful the TS were at assisying consumers). But don't worry, I'll try to keep you right.

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It is quite simple - you asked if you could repost those missing (and thank you for asking) and we said no.

We have made the position as clear as it will ever be, so I will not comment any further on this thread in relation to this matter.

 

Just before you go - are we reading the same thread? You did NOT at any time say (admit) that the 'missing messages' were removed by CAG. Therefore there is still no issue about replacing them.

 

What you actually said was 'IF the messages were removed' which I'm afraid is a totally different thing. As I have repeatedly pointed out, using the tactic hilighted here ANY CAG member could rightfully replace the missing messages unless there was an advisory that they had been removed.

 

Yoiur present stance (and in my humble view, untenable) is that any message that appeared then disappeared has been removed by TBTB and should not therefore be replaced or commented on. I

 

f you want to cofirm that those messages WERE actually removed, fine - I have no argument with that (your ball/ballpark etc) but to blithely state nothing ('if they were removed') then subsequently thank me for not reposting meaning to any reasonable person there was no 'if' about it - is not playing fair by the members. It is THAT I find totally unfair.

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Buzbys point is that he has the conversation saved, and if it was accidentally removed or dissapeared due to a software glitch then he could help restore it, but if it were deleted by a moderator then thats fine. (even though it does make him look like he's going crazy talking to himself and answering questions that were not asked LOL)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tragic news this is just devastating. Oh wait..... no it isn't!

All my posts are made without prejudice and may not be reused or reproduced without my express permission (or the permission of the forums owners)!

 

17/10/2006 Recieve claim against me from lloyds TSB for £312.82

18/10/06 S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent

03/02/07 Claim allocated to small claims. Hearing set for 15/05/07. Lloyds ordered to file statement setting out how they calculate their charges

15/05/07 Lloyds do not attend. Judgement ordered for £192 approx, £3 travel costs and removal of default notice

29/05/07 4pm Lloyds deadline for payment of CCJ expires. Warrant of execution ready to go

19/06/07 Letter from court stating Lloyds have made a cheque payment to court

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