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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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hsbc bank charges


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Hi i am a newie at this hope i do it right ,i am currently awaiting a date for a hearing in court for the hsbc on bank charges,i have had no offer from the banks at all ,do you think that they will give me an offer before the court date or will they go all the way to court,what is the general rule on this one:confused:

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Hi i am a newie at this hope i do it right ,i am currently awaiting a date for a hearing in court for the hsbc on bank charges,i have had no offer from the banks at all ,do you think that they will give me an offer before the court date or will they go all the way to court,what is the general rule on this one:confused:

 

Each case regarding offers is different, however the one thinkg that is the same is that they wont go to court.

Read the success threads in the HSBC forum this will show you what to expect.

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hi livelylad i asked for a refund of £2,562 got an offer of £1,822 but still awaiting a court date ,do i accept this offer or fight all the way to court even though as in almost all cases the banks dont turn up anyway ,there offer doesnt involve interest or the mcol cost of £120.00 ,do i write them a nudge letter & ask them again for the amount owing as i believe i will have to folk out another £100.00 in more costs ,gets a bit expensive all this court stuff :rolleyes:

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hi livelylad i asked for a refund of £2,562 got an offer of £1,822 but still awaiting a court date ,do i accept this offer or fight all the way to court even though as in almost all cases the banks dont turn up anyway ,there offer doesnt involve interest or the mcol cost of £120.00 ,do i write them a nudge letter & ask them again for the amount owing as i believe i will have to folk out another £100.00 in more costs ,gets a bit expensive all this court stuff :rolleyes:

 

Hi I have enclosed a link for you.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejecting-offers.html

 

You are now entitled to the interest and the court fees. Fight all teh way for your money.

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thanks a lot for that information ,i will write a letter stating my objectives & wait for a reply ,hopefully full refund before court date ,its in there best interest to settle isnt it !how long do you think for court dates are we talking months because of the back logs :rolleyes:

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HELLO AGAIN,DO I SEND A NUDGE LETTER TO THE SERVICE QUALITY TEAM IN LEEDS [THATS WHERE THERE OFFER CAME FROM ] MR LOKER.OR TO DG BUT I DONT KNOW THERE ADDRESS ,WHAT DO YOU THINK ,IF I NEED TO WRITE TO DG CAN YOU GIVE ME THERE ADDRESS ,REGARDS PHUGH:confused:

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hi phugh, this might help if it is DG then it may well be kate eaves who is dealing with it, she is dealing with mine. here email is [email protected]..... you could send any future mail via this as well as snail mail...........from Northampton court today they are running a min of 6 days behind........... due to the volume of claims.....

rockin all over the world

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yes my case has been defended & i am now awaiting a transfer date to my local court ,i did phone them up last week to see if they had a date yet they told me it would take 2 weeks ,still awaiting date ,but in the mean time i did get an offer of £1,800 from leeds i am claiming £2,500 ,wrote a letter back to them registered post telling them that i was rejecting there offer ,hoping to get a full offer before my court date ,going on hols at the end of june could do with some spends ;)

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i'd send one of those rejection letters to hsbc - to the place where the offer originated - and put in the letter that they don't appear to be up to date as you have now filed in county court and would require the reimbursement of court fees. give them your claim number and date -

this is actually just a courtesy - because as above - from filing - you are actually being dealt with by dg now. so, i'd send dg a copy of that letter and your reply and also a copy of your breakdown. send a nice little letter saying that you understand that they are defending the claim, that you hope to hear from them soon, that you will require xxxx.xx (full amount) to settle the claim.

there are some ideas for letters in post 1 of both my aq threads in my signature. i'm advising a nudge letter to dg every 10 days with a breakdown until they offer - with you rejecting that offer from the bank - it seems a logical opening for your first nudge letter.

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Thanks all for your help, Lateralus on Tuesday I sent them an email copied from this site, the I know you are very busy with claims, kind of thing. I also gave them a dead line of the 15th of this month in it to seetle otherwise do not bother making an offer "we will see you infront of the judge".

 

So far no acknowledgement, I did however send a refusal as soon as that offer came in, HSBC have not acknowledged that letter so far, we also sent one 14 days later giving them a date when court action would be subbmiteed, they also have not responded to this either :) but that is a good suggestion and I will do so today........

 

What I have also done is email the local paper drawing attention to the fact the banks are using the judicial system for prevaricating............and have drawn reference to the article by the Judge in Bristol.....My hope is that some of the judges might just read it, not be aware of that and it might just make them look at the actions in their courts a little differently....... Well it cant od any harm can it?:)

 

Tried phoning Northampton County Court yesterday afternoon but alas from 3.45 till 5pm continually engaged( think thye have had enopugh by that time of day).

 

Have just phoned them whilst typing htis:) :) :) :) it has been transfered to my local court yesterday, and we are being sent a copy of their defence. I asked the very nice lady who I spoke ot " oh so I shoudl have it tomorrow or Monday at the latest then", that might be a bit quick but certainly next week....

 

Oh Oh Oh (its like getting near xmas).........So the next step is they court will either send the AQ thingy or jsut issue the court date yes?.......

 

Thanks all, this site and those who offer this service are indespensable.........Auburn

rockin all over the world

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Oh sorry auburn, I thought you had already received a defence ( ishould have read your thread properly). I have had a standard defence that I could post. Where do you think the best place would be to post it? Should it be in a thread of it's own?

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I will post it as soon as it arrives Freakly then you can compare it to the one you received........... erm i ma struggling finding things onthe site as it is...............wouldnt know where to start but maybe a defences thread is a good idea............

 

Lateralus I am more than happy to be wrong but i thought prevaricating meant To stray from or evade the truth...........now the banks are evading the truth as regards real cost of bank charges, so libel would not be an option:idea: .......... again i could be wrong with my understanding of Procrastination but thought it meant avoidance of an action or task to a later time.............

 

Now if both definitions are indeed correct , then it is possible both would apply:idea: but thanks for your thoughts, I will be more careful in the words and meaning I use in future........... thanks aururn:)

rockin all over the world

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yes, they both apply but you can say someone is putting things off that should be done and not go to court but if you call someone a liar............

 

other words to be avoided are thieving scumbags, etc....

 

we can think lots of things but have to be careful what we accuse peeps of - else the site gets in trouble, too.

 

think i was general enough - but watch this get edited!

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