FOS DD's and me

[remus]

Hi all, I have an on going dispute with Nationwide, and the transfer of dd's between 2 of my accounts, NW did the transfer, but not one of the companies acted on the instructions:rolleyes: . All hell lets loose, phone gets cut off etc. did the complaint route with NW, who say they sent Email to all the companies and they could not be responsible for said companies not acting on their instructions.

One company I spoke to said they had received no new instructions, only bounced dd as cancelled.

So who's telling the truth?

Sent all details to FOS, (prompts NW to offer £50) who's conclusion is "persuaded that instructions were sent to each of the originators"

"agree that it is odd that none of the institutions in question "acted on the instruction received via ADDACS"

"Satisfied that the instructions were sent, and that NW acted in accordance"

"do not beleive this service could require that NW pay any conpensation to you. The amount of £50 has been offered by the society as a gesture of goodwill and I would urge you to accept it)

( this service should not have to make a payment, but the ensuing problems created by this service do:mad: )

"we do not look into a complaint where, in our view, it is clear that it will not succeed"

 

Do I lay down and die after 5 months and accept £50?

Do I question the FOS for proof of the ADDACS audit trail that persuaded them that the instructions were sent?

Do I get in touch with each company, and ask for written proof of any activity on my account for that day in question re dd's?

Or do I just give up, and forget all the hassle and problems created by all the companies not acting on NWs email, and being made out to be a liar, as all concerned seemed to think I was trying to pull a fast one:-| ?

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated:)

[demon_x_slash]

Well, if it was me, I'd want to know just who was telling porkies on this one

[remus]

I agree demon;) but no one's owning up, I'm betwixt a rock and a hard place.

The FOS have made me feel like I am being a pain for no reason.

OK tis war, I shall be requesting hard copy proof:D from all involved with a 14 day time scale or else (what I don't know yet!) watch this space:p

[Shoestring]

Yes remus, ask MW to provide copies of the instructions they issued.

 

Under data protection you can pay a tenner and file for copies of all electronic messages relating to you... mind you, I did this once and received one pitiful email unrelated to the problem I was pursuing - even tho' I had (unbeknownst to them) copies of dozens of emails I had exchanged with the company but according to them their own records appeared to have been "lost".

 

The way I see it is if one of the dd's didn't activate, then it was probably the company itself to blame but the fact that none of them were activated is, indeed, highly suspicious that NW cocked-up.

 

FOS are a waste of time - an exercise in illusion. Their role is to provide the "glitter" of regulation when there is none in reality.

 

What they said reminds me of a Bank of England inquiry that (allegedly) looked into the causes of well-known British merchant bank that went belly up several years back. When I read the BoE report on the affair it became glaringly apparent that the Old Lady hadn't actually sent one single investigator inside the merchant bank office itself to conduct an on-the-spot investigation, but had entirely relied on the "trustworthiness" and "truthfulness" of the merchant bank officers to tell it the way it was. The merchant bank was later sold to a foreign bank so that none of the numerous irregularities (not to mention illegalities and other less savoury activities) could be discovered here in the UK. Smart move as cover-ups go. Meanwhile, the couple of dozen senior directors and other officers managed to negotiate a nice year end bonus to be paid by their (now bankrupt but honoured by the new foreign owners) bank followed by a nice severance package when they were all "let go" a couple of months later.

 

Few people in the media picked up on the fact that the bonuses were paid on that years profits (sic) which had not just been inflated but had been entirely fabricated. Every month in that twelve-month period the real results were massive month on month losses.

 

Makes you think doesn't it.

 

Anyway, a million plus in a single bonus payment amounted to "punishment" City style. Tough out there for the City slickers isn't it.

 

Shoestring

[remus]

Thanks for that shoestring, would it not be an idea to ask for a copy of the ADDACS that persuded the FOS that the instructions had been carried out, mind as they are snowed under with all these bloomin people claiming charges:rolleyes: it could take months.

your little tale has certainly got me thinking re the FOS, me thinks I shall carry on being the proverbial pain:D

[Shoestring]

No harm in being a pain in return for being royally screwed is there...

 

Have funn.

 

Shoestring

[remus]

Update, the companies are sending confirmation of none movement of accounts on the day in question. Spoke to FOS re ADDACS audit trail,and having a copy of said, very helpful, but I think a DD expert needs to be bought in:confused: so many questions thrown up with no answers.

were did the email go if NW have proof it was done? was there 1 number/code wrong that only someone who has a good knowledge of DD's would know. Two of the companies are saying they do not except dd instuctions via email, so why was an email sent?.

My feeling is as the DD system works for everyone else:rolleyes: I'm not going to get the answers, but hope that the FOS have a little seed planted:) DD's are the Devils spawn (see Devil Devil:D )

[Shoestring]

Have NW provided you with their "proof" or is them just saying that?

 

Shoestring

[remus]

No Shoestring, NW have never sent me proof, just as you say letters saying it has been investigated by themselves, and they are happy the email was sent to each company, and it is down to said companies to act on the instruction.

I did ask FOS for a copy, but we got side tracked as the conversation went on, and the FOS is looking to an increased goodwill offer.

Is tomorrow a good day to request proof from NW in hard copy for my records? so that I can draw my complaint to a satisfactory conclusion:rolleyes: . Watch this space.

[Shoestring]

Well, it all come down to whether you trust them to speak without a forked tongue doesn't it. Perosnally, I never would, even in a million Sundays. The fact that all the DDs failed with a variety of different companies clearly indicates that the problem is with the bank and not elsewhere. Unless you are recording your phone calls and they know that, then "little variations" in the truth are more than likely. Nowadays I always communicate by snailmail letter on issues like this. Just a thought?

 

Shoestring

[remus]

Shoestring have just been going through the NW forum:eek: they are taking a loooong time to reply under data protection as they are snowed under. And yes the light is coming on re GET IT IN WRITING;) . Point of case my post on Nationwide today, I keep beating myself up re knee jerk reaction to ring and sort out the £30 charge. you would think I knew better re the above:o whats your thought on email? to FOS to send hard copy they have, to me? also am going to try and find a site re DD's though I doubt it will give me tecnical stuff, more like its a guarantee blah blah

[Shoestring]

Remus, I always us snailmail on disputes like this, although I have sometimes used email but with a snailmail backup (usually enclosing a copy of the email I sent). My view (and it is only my view) is that emails are easily lost, telephone calls (unless recorded) are easily "miststated" and that the only binding factor is an old fashioned letter. Slower yes, but something they can't easily wriggle from. Also, I have learned to read incoming letters on these issues very critically. I have noticed that there is sometimes an awfully clever illusion of providing an answer, but if you read it on a basis of presenting it in court, then their choice of words and structure of sentences melts into the mist. Therefore, it needs you to insist on facts being stated, not guesses, or diversions...no wriggle room whatsoever.

 

Hope this helps and please note it is offered in the spirit of assistance only, My views, like anyone else's can and are (sometimes) wrong. Unimaginable, I know...

 

Shoestring

[indebtstudent]

The £50 is, I believe, some sort of guarantee Nationwide offer when you use thier switcher service (or at least it used to be). I would send another complaint address to the CEO pointing out that not one single company acted on the instruction and you have not heard of this happening before. Point out this has dented your faith in thier organisation when you were considering bringing over all sorts of other business (doesn't have to be true but should get thier attention).

 

You have to weigh up is £50 sufficeint to compensate for the hardhips you mentioned? Things being cut off etc.

 

One thing I'm not clear on did Nationwide cancel the DD's with your old bank? If they did then I would consider this further evidence - how come they all got cancelled but none got changed over?

 

If you cancelled them then obviously you cannot mention this. Personally I would complain to the FOS and point out that you intend to take the complaint further.

[remus]

shoestring, I sent email to FOS re copy of NW ADDACS and have had a response this morning that he is waiting to hear from NW re increased offer, and whether they are happy to release ADDACS file (not that I'm going to know what it means:D BUT hope an IT DD expert is wandering the site) to me or I go down the £10 statu route.

Have read through correspondance with NW and am getting fired up as like you say its all fluffy and not answering my questions:mad: .

Indabtstudent going to read through your post and respond in a min:)

[Shoestring]

Pleased to hear it and best of luck!

 

I am sure this site has members who are quite familiar with reading material of this nature. Sadly, I'm not one of them or I would happily offer to do so.

 

Isn't it a great pity that one has to become as cunning as a serpent to deal with everyday issues like this. It says something about our society, I suppose, that one must treat any form of planned business as an occasion when you might be mugged.

 

Shoestring

[remus]

Hi Indebtstudent, First, it was transferring accounts inhouse,I wanted a clear account just for DD's so if anything was left, thats what I had to live on. I thought it would be simple:rolleyes:. My first question to NW,(before I knew that all DD's had failed) was, why did they close the initial account down to DD's when they suggest you have enough money in your previous Bank account to cover time transfer. (this all happened on the same day) the response was just to reiterate what they had done.

The reason I'm in this fiasco is because NW are saying they sent an automated message (electronic message) to all companies, I have been in touch with each company last week, none of which received anything from NW on the day in question and have asked for confirmation of this in writing. I did put on my complaint form to FOS that I could get confirmation from the companies, but thinking about the response from the FOS as shoestring intimates the FOS have allowed themselves to be persuaded by NW that they acted accordingly,and as such my information is not needed. excuse me I would'nt be here if they had:mad: .

Is £50 enough:rolleyes: when they charge £30 for what!

Thinking about your suggestion to write attention of CEO as something has (or not) happened ehmmmm!

further prob I think arising from this is a thread I have started re Amber credit, money going in same day as dd coming out, NW say cancel it, so no charges, I cancel, Amber now saying I have defaulted pay £20 admin, I think because of the dd' appearing to be totally mucked up, and so it go's on:(

[remus]

Hi update, not happy:( the plot thickens, my complaint can not be taken any further re NW, and the letter I received today leads me to beleive that it is correct, in that NW have confirmation that "the output was processed".

 

So if the system can prove that there was output, can it also show the input?

 

Not one was received, so where did they go? who is responsible?

 

I can see that the FOS can take it no further, but who do I go to now?

 

what system has let me down?

 

Any ideas anyone?

 

ps, do I need to put any disclaimer on the NW offer letter for £50?

[indebtstudent]

MP?