CCA's and Dave against the world !!!

[Alphageek]

Nothing on TV anyway Dave. Just tune in to CAG. It's much more entertaining

[davefirewalker]

No they are REALLY winding me up with their ARROGANT attitudes.......

 

Its the principle !!!

 

they are in for a fight, they don't know who they are messing with

 

rgds

 

Dave

[ScarletPimpernel]

Ah yes, TV Licencing aka Crapita...

 

I have a house that I don't live in, work taking me elsewhere and providing a variety of alternative accommodation. There is no TV at the house, and has not been for over 5 years. Do Crapita believe it? No, they don't. In true DCA style they bombard me with letters and postcards suggesting all manner of threats and consequences.

 

Usually I ignore them, but a couple of years ago a letter was forwarded which told me, in large red letters, that 'enforcement officers' would be calling at my home soon. I wrote back, telling them that home at the time was a rather hot and dusty portakabin affair called a corimec, located just outside Basra in Iraq. I told them that I should welcome a visit, since their silly plastic policemen may then gain an insight into the reality of life, and why a TV licence is actually not important in the big scheme of things, and why Crapita's pomposity and harassment fails to impress me. I suspect the irony was lost on them, as they replied reminding me a) that military accommodation still requires a TV licence (they treat every room as a separate residence), and b) that if I have more than one home I must have a licence for each! You couldn't make it up!*

 

 

 

 

*except under a New Labour government, of course.

[Josie8]

Hi ncf355

 

I'm not 100% sure myself but was told that to be a fact.....however knowing courts I would imagine it could be true.

 

what are you up to ?

 

Dave

 

 

I think if you agree then its ok. However if you dispute the documents validity then I think the court will have to order production of the original.

[davefirewalker]

Hi guys

 

MBNA have FINALLY responded with my full sar........(will have to inform ICO, who may still have a go at them)

 

guess what

 

NO cancellation notices.......

 

MUST get my act together and work out a strategy

 

"the games afoot"

 

Dave

[davefirewalker]

Hi All

 

MBNA have finally given me my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)....... No notice of any cancelation rights being sent.

 

(brief precis)

 

loan applied for by phone

agreement sent (they signed 11 mar 03)

loan IS cancelable or made cancelable by statement

I signed 12 mar 03

 

what we now have is a cancelable agreement becoming executed on my signature.

 

CCA 1974

 

63 Duty to supply copy of executed agreement

 

(1) If the unexecuted agreement is presented personally to the debtor or hirer for his signature, and on the occasion when he signs it the document becomes an executed agreement, a copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it, must be there and then delivered to him.

 

(2) A copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it, must be given to the debtor or hirer within the seven days following the making of the agreement unless—

 

(a) subsection (1) applies, or

 

(b) the unexecuted agreement was sent to the debtor or hirer for his signature and, on the occasion of his signing it, the document became an executed agreement.

 

(3) In the case of a cancellable agreement, a copy under subsection (2) must be sent by post.

 

(4) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a copy under subsection (2) need not be given within the seven days following the making of the agreement if it is given before or at the time when the credit-token is given to the debtor.

 

(5) A regulated agreement is not properly executed if the requirements of this section are not observed.

 

 

64 Duty to give notice of cancellation rights

 

(1) In the case of a cancellable agreement, a notice in the prescribed form indicating the right of the debtor or hirer to cancel the agreement, how and when that right is exercisable, and the name and address of a person to whom notice of cancellation may be given,—

 

(a) must be included in every copy given to the debtor or hirer under section 62 or 63, and

 

(b) except where section 63(2) applied, must also be sent by post to the debtor or hirer within the seven days following the making of the agreement.

 

(2) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a notice under subsection (1)(b) need not be sent by post within the seven days following the making of the agreement if either—

 

(a) it is sent by post to the debtor or hirer before the credit-token is given to him, or

 

(b) it is sent by post to him together with the credit-token.

 

 

(3) Regulations may provide that except where section 63(2) applied a notice sent under subsection (1)(b) shall be accompanied by a further copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it.

 

(4) Regulations may provide that subsection (1)(b) is not to apply in the case of agreements such as are described in the regulations, being agreements made by a particular person, if—

 

(a) on an application by that person to the Director, the Director has determined that, having regard to—

 

(i) the manner in which antecedent negotiations for agreements with the applicant of that description are conducted, and

 

(ii) the information provided to debtors or hirers before such agreements are made,

 

 

the requirement imposed by subsection (1)(b) can be dispensed with without prejudicing the interests of debtors or hirers; and

 

(b) any conditions imposed by the Director in making the determination are complied with.

 

 

(5) A cancellable agreement is not properly executed if the requirements of this section are not observed.

 

 

NO cancelation rights sent !!

 

looks on the face of it to be improperly executed enforceable only by court order......

 

Any thoughts, should I have a go at them

 

rgds

 

Dave

[Josie8]

Just thought I'd pop in again...........NO news from MS as yet, MBNA have been reported to the Information Commissioners Office, AMEX is very quiet, and the F******* TV licensing people are driving me mad.

 

WHERE does it say in ANY legislation that you HAVE to have a TV set....or if you do have one you have to have it plugged in or that you even have to watch it. There was a gap between renewing my latest licence and the last one. NONE of their business. They have now re-adjusted my licence to continue from the last one. I THINK NOT!!! they have already gained two weeks by conveniently starting it from the begining of the month.

 

Well I'm not playing ball, they will have a fight on their hands:)

 

Dave

 

It doesn't........I'd quote the Harrassment Act at them etc.............

[ODC]

Ah yes, TV Licencing aka Crapita...

 

I have a house that I don't live in, work taking me elsewhere and providing a variety of alternative accommodation. There is no TV at the house, and has not been for over 5 years. Do Crapita believe it? No, they don't. In true DCA style they bombard me with letters and postcards suggesting all manner of threats and consequences.

 

Usually I ignore them, but a couple of years ago a letter was forwarded which told me, in large red letters, that 'enforcement officers' would be calling at my home soon. I wrote back, telling them that home at the time was a rather hot and dusty portakabin affair called a corimec, located just outside Basra in Iraq. I told them that I should welcome a visit, since their silly plastic policemen may then gain an insight into the reality of life, and why a TV licence is actually not important in the big scheme of things, and why Crapita's pomposity and harassment fails to impress me. I suspect the irony was lost on them, as they replied reminding me a) that military accommodation still requires a TV licence (they treat every room as a separate residence), and b) that if I have more than one home I must have a licence for each! You couldn't make it up!*

 

 

 

 

*except under a New Labour government, of course.

A nice idea may be to invite Crapita to visit the house where no TV exists to see for themselves. If of course you were having a reunion party with some of you ex colleagues on the same evening I would imagine it would be a quick visit and an even quicker retreat than the republican guard from Kuwait

[redsue]

Any thoughts, should I have a go at them

 

erm YES!!!

Maybe our friend scarletpimpernell could lend you a rocket to stick up their a**e

[davefirewalker]

erm YES!!!

Maybe our friend scarletpimpernell could lend you a rocket to stick up their a**e

 

 

Hi Redsue...

 

Actually it was a poorly worded rhetorical question

 

They are in my sights now

 

rgds

 

Dave

[ODC]

Hi Redsue...

 

Actually it was a poorly worded rhetorical question

 

They are in my sights now

 

rgds

 

Dave

 

A well aimed S**T seeker MK IV rocket should find its target

[Andy9012]

Hi Dave

 

Great thread, this is on behalf of my mate, the result of his CCA request to Monument is exactly the same as yours apart from they have also sent what looks to be a current copy of their T's & C's. He is not claiming any charges back just looking to offer a vastly reduced settlement or stop paying altogether. Just to ask, I take it you have stopped paying them now?

 

Keep up the good work!

[davefirewalker]

Hi Dave

 

Great thread, this is on behalf of my mate, the result of his CCA request to Monument is exactly the same as yours apart from they have also sent what looks to be a current copy of their T's & C's. He is not claiming any charges back just looking to offer a vastly reduced settlement or stop paying altogether. Just to ask, I take it you have stopped paying them now?

 

Keep up the good work!

 

YES.........

 

but the clowns are still trying to put interest an late charges on....

 

even though it is a court matter.

 

once I get back what they owe me, I'm going for all the interest I've ever paid

 

Dave

[Andy9012]

Yu da man!

[dpick]

Hi dave can you just confirm you got copy of agreement through SAR not CCA as I am in process of taking MBNA through court regarding SAR (you know their "this time we have not treated your request as a full SAR did not send back £10 and please send photo id and another £10) and am just checking what I can expect to see for full disclosure to the court.

 

dpick:)

[ODC]

Hi dave can you just confirm you got copy of agreement through S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) not CCA as I am in process of taking MBNA through court regarding SAR (you know their "this time we have not treated your request as a full SAR did not send back £10 and please send photo id and another £10) and am just checking what I can expect to see for full disclosure to the court.

 

dpick:)

Photo ID my a**e. This is another stalling tactic by these muppets. They are quite happy to accept proof of your id when sending you all the threats and demands. HTF do they know what you look like. A passport does not confirm your address. Knowing the way these clowns hold and care for information I would not trust them with a dog licence let alone my driving licence. There is nothing in the legislation that states you must send photo id to them. They have 40 days to produce the info and they know it. You have made a legal request and sent the statutory fee. Tough on them if they think the law does not apply to them. Suckers

[davefirewalker]

Hi dave can you just confirm you got copy of agreement through S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) not CCA as I am in process of taking MBNA through court regarding S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) (you know their "this time we have not treated your request as a full SAR did not send back £10 and please send photo id and another £10) and am just checking what I can expect to see for full disclosure to the court.

 

dpick:)

 

Actually I had previously cca'd them for the agreement. There were no charges that I knew of, but to check on what they had, I had to SAR them.

 

As it turns out they sent me a copy of the agreement with my FULL S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) as well!

 

They had asked for ID and everything else but I sent them a letter of complaint and complained to the Information Commissioners Office and lo and behold the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) turned up. WITHOUT me sending ID!! may have to cancel the complaint to the ico

 

The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) includes transcripts of all conversations (in a sort of shorthand, but understandable), screenshots, letters sent, copy agreements. In fact evrything you might need.

 

The good thing is that if the dont supply it on an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) then I dont think they can rely on it in court.

 

rgds

 

Dave

[davefirewalker]

Photo ID my a**e. This is another stalling tactic by these muppets. They are quite happy to accept proof of your id when sending you all the threats and demands. HTF do they know what you look like. A passport does not confirm your address. Knowing the way these clowns hold and care for information I would not trust them with a dog licence let alone my driving licence. There is nothing in the legislation that states you must send photo id to them. They have 40 days to produce the info and they know it. You have made a legal request and sent the statutory fee. Tough on them if they think the law does not apply to them. Suckers

 

Actually they may be within their rights........sorry

 

but it is still stalling tactics.....

 

Data Protection Act 1998 excerpt.....

 

(2) A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under subsection (1) unless he has received-

 

(a) a request in writing, and

(b) except in prescribed cases, such fee (not exceeding the prescribed maximum) as he may require.

 

 

(3) A data controller is not obliged to comply with a request under this section unless he is supplied with such information as he may reasonably require in order to satisfy himself as to the identity of the person making the request and to locate the information which that person seeks.

 

 

But yes you are right in that they have no problems sending demands and threatening letters to your address.......muppets

 

rgds

 

Dave

[ODC]

Actually they may be within their rights........sorry

 

but it is still stalling tactics.....

 

Data Protection Act 1998 excerpt.....

 

(2) A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under subsection (1) unless he has received-

 

(a) a request in writing, and

(b) except in prescribed cases, such fee (not exceeding the prescribed maximum) as he may require.

 

 

(3) A data controller is not obliged to comply with a request under this section unless he is supplied with such information as he may reasonably require in order to satisfy himself as to the identity of the person making the request and to locate the information which that person seeks.

 

 

But yes you are right in that they have no problems sending demands and threatening letters to your address.......muppets

 

rgds

 

Dave

Well if they are prepared to accept your name and address to send their threats to then in law they have set a precedent so they cannot say the same address is no longer valid. They are obviously satisfied to send threats so I think any cour would take it that they have accepted the same address for the SAR. I would never send these wanchors any personal info. They cannot handle the info they have under the DPA so why should they get anymore. I reckon I could defend this in any court case I take against them for non production of an SAR. There are enough stated cases to take them on.

[zander]

Excuse me for going slightly off thread and this may have been covered already but what's the situation when a creditor does eventually produce the cca, albeit after the 30 day deadline? It is enforceable, however, do they just get off scot free after committing the offence or do they have to go to court and explain themselves??

[dpick]

Well if they are prepared to accept your name and address to send their threats to then in law they have set a precedent so they cannot say the same address is no longer valid. They are obviously satisfied to send threats so I think any cour would take it that they have accepted the same address for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). I would never send these wanchors any personal info. They cannot handle the info they have under the Data Protection Act so why should they get anymore. I reckon I could defend this in any court case I take against them for non production of an SAR. There are enough stated cases to take them on.

 

This exactly the argument I am using for part of my case against MBNA they have till 9th July to reply to notice of issue re none compliance SAR

I have quoted MBNA's letter "on this occasion we have provided the information free of charge, as we have not treated this as a full SAR request" when I made a formal SAR request and paid the £10 fee by crossed postal order and have receipt which MBNA did not return or try to take off account balance, and MBNA only sent 3 years of statements upto 2004 when the first charge was put on account. I will be interested to see what they have to say to the court.

 

dpick:mad:

[davefirewalker]

Zandar

 

Pass......

 

I think if they produce it up to the 12 + (month) it will become enforceable again without going to court (if its any good), after the 30 days I think they have to go to court.....

 

however a complaint to trading standards or the oft would be in order.

 

 

I will check and get back to you

 

Dave

[ODC]

This exactly the argument I am using for part of my case against MBNA they have till 9th July to reply to notice of issue re none compliance S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)

I have quoted MBNA's letter "on this occasion we have provided the information free of charge, as we have not treated this as a full SAR request" when I made a formal SAR request and paid the £10 fee by crossed postal order and have receipt which MBNA did not return or try to take off account balance, and MBNA only sent 3 years of statements upto 2004 when the first charge was put on account. I will be interested to see what they have to say to the court.

 

dpick:mad:

As I previously said MBNA are chancing their arm, They have your tenner they have your resonse to letters the sent to you. Any Court will accept this as proof. Let them default and then take them to the cleaners. You are right they are wrong. Its an open and shut case. They are numerous legal precedents you can quote. Dont forget these are the numpties who say they work under American Law and not British law. And therefore your honour I rest my case.

[ian1969uk]

There is no requirement for a creditor to go to court to be able to enforce an agreement if it is produced after the timescales. Assuming it has all prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor and creditor, they can enforce again immediately. This does not entitle them to ask for arrears that may have built up during the period of their default, they can just start enforceing again at the usual monthly payment. Nor should they have added interest or charges whilst in default.

 

In theory, they have still committed an offence for which Trading Standards could prosecute. In reality, this will never happen.

[ODC]

In theory, they have still committed an offence for which Trading Standards could prosecute. In reality, this will never happen.

Its high time someone complained against TS for failing to prsecte non copliance with CCA requests. After all a summary criminal offence has been commiited