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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Think i've messed up big time **DEFENCE & C/C STRUCK OUT** WON**

Kazzie

By Kazzie
in LloydsTsb Successes

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RevengeAtLast

RevengeAtLast

Posted
Posted

Kazzie,

 

First of al congratulations on your victory... but I have a question for you..

 

Would you have started your claim had you been aware of the risk of Lloyds counterclaiming for your loan etc? I ask because I am in a very similar position...

 

I business account, closed owing £3K

I personal account closed £7.5K overdrawn

I personal loan defaulted £10K...

Total debt of about £22K sold to a third party who I am dealing with now.

 

I believe I have had about £5K-£10K of charges over the last six years!

(I used to joke Iwas one of their best customers the amount of money they made from me... Not funny anymore though!)

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Kazzie

Kazzie

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Hi Revenge

Thanks for the congrats though the fat lady hasn't sung yet:D

 

My initial reaction to the Counterclaim was that i wished i hadn't started it, but once i got my head around it i realised i was in a win-win situation as i personally had very little to lose.

 

The only thing i would say to be aware of is that if you go ahead with your claim and they then counterclaim you and you lose, you will be liable for all of their costs as well as the debt, which will obviously be quite hefty!

 

I was paying Lloyds DCA a nominal monthly payment arrived at with the help of the CCCS, and if i had lost it was highly unlikely that the judge would have ordered me to pay them at an amount higher than i already was, and as i had no assets there was nothing that Lloyds could have taken from me in order for me to pay the debt to them (in one lump sum) plus costs should i have lost.

 

My personal opinion is that if (unlike me) you've got something to lose, then it wouldn't be worth taking them on, but if your in the same financial situation as me then you'd have very little to lose by giving it a go.

 

Please be aware that this is just my personal opinion and many others on here with more experience may have a different opinion.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do:)

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Kazzie

Kazzie

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Gladstanes.......I rang the court and they confirmed that the Counterclaim was struck out along with the defence(phew!).

 

You must be right in that they would have to issue a new claim against me should they wish to proceed.:rolleyes: Thanks again.

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remus

remus

Posted
Posted

The Fat Ladys stretching her vocals:p

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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GaryH

GaryH

Posted
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Gladstanes.......I rang the court and they confirmed that the Counterclaim was struck out along with the defence(phew!).

 

You must be right in that they would have to issue a new claim against me should they wish to proceed.:rolleyes: Thanks again.

Yes, the AQ was not just relating to their defence - the claim and c/c proceed as one case. If the defence is struck out then the c/c goes with it.

 

Just as well you didn't pay a couple of hundred quid for a solicitor to tell you that, eh?:rolleyes:

 

They cannot simply just pick up and start a new claim against you. They have 14 days to apply to set-aside the strike out. If that period expires then the fat lady has sung.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Kazzie

Kazzie

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Yes, the AQ was not just relating to their defence - the claim and c/c proceed as one case. If the defence is struck out then the c/c goes with it.

 

Just as well you didn't pay a couple of hundred quid for a solicitor to tell you that, eh?:rolleyes:

 

They cannot simply just pick up and start a new claim against you. They have 14 days to apply to set-aside the strike out. If that period expires then the fat lady has sung.

 

Thanks for that Gary, what a relief! It's very reassuring to know that they can't just start a new claim. Will count down the days until the sing song.

 

I was just wondering what your thoughts on the subject were, you must have heard me calling (Garyo Garyo, where art thou Garyo) :D

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trueblueexile

trueblueexile

Posted
Posted

My God Kazzie, i am the lucky one. I am new today and picked up your thread out of interest. You have really got yourself in a pickle but we can all learn from your mistake, credit to you for being open about it. Although i don't owe anyone any money i am glad you posted your situation and i am taking my time going thro the site before i attack barclays and halifax.

 

Good luck and hope things come off for you.

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Kazzie

Kazzie

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The date has now passed that i gave Lloyds to pay me by, following judgment by default.

I'm wondering if i should issue a warrant now or wait until Friday, as they have until Thursday to apply for a set aside. I think i've read somewhere that i'll lose the £55.00 warrant fee if they go on to apply for a set aside after the warrants been issued, could someone please confirm this?

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Kazzie

Kazzie

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Rang SC&M this morning to see if there was any danger of recieving my money before i issued a warrant (actually i was far more polite than that..some may even say a touch grovelling:oops: ).

 

They said they would find out and ring me back, which i didn't expect them too but they did. :eek:

They said a cheque was sent out to my home address on Thursday, so presuming they've sent it second class i will have to wait and see what tomorrows post brings.

Hopefully they didn't have their fingers crossed behind their back when they said it :mad:. Looks like GuildoT's method for quick payment may have worked for me too, thanks GuildoT:).

 

Hopefully this is nearly over.

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remus

remus

Posted
Posted

Kazzie, this is torture:eek: and once you get your cheque, you'll have to wait for it to clear!

Good luck:D

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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Kazzie

Kazzie

Posted
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Kazzie, this is torture:eek: and once you get your cheque, you'll have to wait for it to clear!

Good luck:D

 

Thanks remus :), your sooooooo right, even if i do get a cheque tomorrow i wont believe it until it's in my grasping little mits :D

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Kazzie

Kazzie

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Still no cheque :(. I can't understand why it hasn't got here yet if they posted it out last Thurday:?.

 

I could understand it if they fobbed me off with 'the cheques in the post' when i first rang them, but why ring me back several hours later to tell me it's been posted if it wasn't true? Suppose it could just be down to snail mail:rolleyes:

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remus

remus

Posted
Posted

perhaps he/she meant this thursday (today):rolleyes: as they are so behind.

Ring again just to confirm they got the right thursday;)

And I just Soooooooo agree with your Noooooo:p

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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Kazzie

Kazzie

Posted
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:D Hooray have just recieved the cheque!

 

I now realise why it took so long to get here, they didn't put any postage on it:mad:. My kindly postman paid the £1.24 and has just delivered it, Lloyds must really love me:rolleyes:

 

Cheque should be cashed by Thurday so will happily make a donation then (thats the only part of it i haven't already spent:D )

 

Thanks to everyone who supported me and helped turn this around, especially garyH, guidoT and remus. I cannot adequately express how much i appreciate it.:)

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remus

remus

Posted
Posted

WHOOPIE!!!!! She's a humming!!!

 

Chuffed for you Kazzie:D

 

And come thrusday when the cheque CLEARS:) we shall hear the Fat Lady CLEARLY!!!:p

I can relax now, well done:cool:

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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remus

remus

Posted
Posted

:p Kazzie, can I just say how happy I am for you (keep seeing that stupid train, and know where you are coming from), I hope people will read your thread, and understand where we are coming from in our fight against these big companies, story to tell our grandchildren I think!

Feel a bit like the suffragettes, we will make a difference:p

LTSB court date 25/7/07

17/7/07 I WON I WON I WON!!!!:p :grin:

HSBC court date 11/9/07 (stayed)

CapOne lba 7/1/08-15/3/08 WON.

Citicards lba 14/1/08

 

Read Read and Read Some:razz: More

 

If I've been helpful in anyway please tip my scales:rolleyes:

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts.

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Kazzie

Kazzie

Posted
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Hi remus

 

Thanks for your congrats (and thanks for congrats from others too:) )

 

Yes, it is great to make a difference, and even greater for us to have a forum that shows us how to:D

 

Still fuming about the pettyness of them not paying for postage, 24p, that's all it was, 24p! (plus £1 royal mail handling fee:mad:).

 

The funny thing is that their DCA rang me yesterday morning (at 8.00am!) to see why i've stopped making payments.

I explained that the account was in dispute and said that i would write to them explaining all.

Lloyds still haven't come up with the CCA so technically i could just ignore the debt and see what happens, but i gave it some thought and decided that once i'd recieved my cheque i would continue to make payments (just in case this debt was actually mine!).

Now i feel like telling them to go and jump, if i do, that could prove to be the most expensive postal costs ever, £16.500 for sending a teeny weeny little letter:-D :-D

Hope you completed your bundle ok and i look forward to hearing of your win:)

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