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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Court Date - Have queries! Help Please?


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Welcome back!!!

It's oh so lonely!!!

 

Fingers crossed, legs crossed, eyes crossed!!! for a good outcome from the test case.

Good Luck

Night Owl

Keep up the fight against Bank Charges.

 

 

Got Debt problems?

Don't panic, put the kettle on and read this

 

:-) Everything I write comes from my heart and head! The large filling cabinet that is my knowledge of life, however warped that may be!! :-)

 

<<< Please tickle my star!! if I have managed to help you or just made you chuckle!

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Hello stranger!:)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Helllooooo, thought I just replied but lost it somewhere, sorry! Gary, I pm'd you but ignore it, I started a thread - Urgent Is this a [problem], and there are some answers on there, elsinore sorted me out. Was funny though, guy phoning to tell me we'd won bank charges case and would be refunded in full! When I mentioned CAG he put the phone down, funny that.

 

Nice to speak to you all again - Gary do you know any more about the test case - any murmerings of how the OFT might decide? Know the other website says they think it will say charges are unfair, but I'm finding it hard to hold out for a glimmer of hope!

 

And I know we shouldn't really speculate......

Fzrkitten

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, this news on day 3 of bank charges case, I expect it's already posted somewhere but I had a query - BBC NEWS | Business | Overdrafts are 'core' to banking

 

It says the RBS are arguing an overdraft is a service - what if they didn't let you have an overdraft but still charged you? (That would be my case with Lloyds).

 

Anyone think we can argue that?

 

Fzrkitten.

Fzrkitten

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Hi all, Day 4 of test case below if you haven't found it already

 

BBC NEWS | Business | Barclays begins charges defence

 

Barclays are saying the same:

 

Mr Milligan denied the OFT's contention that Barclays and the other banks were levying fees for purely preparatory work before any service was provided, rather than providing an actual service to their customers.

"If there is at least one obligation on the bank, that is a service, and it is true for both new and old terms," he said.

That this is a charge for a service. I know it doesn't affect everyone, but surely there are a lot of basic account customers that aren't/weren't allowed overdrafts, then surely for them it's not a fee for a service, it's a clear penalty charge for going over a 0 limit?

 

I want to scream at the courts at the mo! And the OFT!

 

Fzrkitten.

Fzrkitten

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Hi fzrkitten, SCWEEM and SCWEEM and SCWEEM!!!!

Still waiting for Lloyds and Abbey to get ripped apart in court. Is there any order that they are being heard in?

Night Owl

Keep up the fight against Bank Charges.

 

 

Got Debt problems?

Don't panic, put the kettle on and read this

 

:-) Everything I write comes from my heart and head! The large filling cabinet that is my knowledge of life, however warped that may be!! :-)

 

<<< Please tickle my star!! if I have managed to help you or just made you chuckle!

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Hi Nightowl,

 

No idea hun, just what it says in the news really, and that the case might go on til middle feb (!), instead of the 8 days thought, but you never know really.

 

I'll pm you anyway in a mo,

 

Fzr..x

Fzrkitten

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Hi fzrkitten,

you can only PM if your on my "buddy list"!

Helloooooo buddy!!!!

 

Night Owl

Keep up the fight against Bank Charges.

 

 

Got Debt problems?

Don't panic, put the kettle on and read this

 

:-) Everything I write comes from my heart and head! The large filling cabinet that is my knowledge of life, however warped that may be!! :-)

 

<<< Please tickle my star!! if I have managed to help you or just made you chuckle!

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Hi guys,

 

Does anybody know if I can follow the court case other than highlights on the tv or the in papers? ie a web site or blog that reports daily on the events of the day.

 

Although I keep an eye out I find very little news.

 

I'm at the stage where I had a court date in Bristol last Sept and had a stay put in place and it came to a halt.

 

Also, will there be a new court bundle after the outcome or will the 300 pages I have already printed be execptable.Or do you think when the courts rule against the banks will it be a formalty to have all the charges returned without a court apperance.

 

All the best, Paul.

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Hi all!

 

Paul, I usually follow it on the BBC news website - they update it every few days. BBC NEWS | Business | OFT's bank charges case 'flawed'

 

Once the judgment comes out we'll have to dissect it properly to see what implications it will have for each individual bank - the issues are complex and IMO it's highly unlikely to be a simple black and white case of either the charges are unlawful or their not.

 

That said, if it does go our way and the principles are directly applicable then, in theory, the banks should pay up pretty much on demand and the only thing you would need in your bundle is your bank statements and a copy of the judgment. In reality though I suspect they will attempt to keep stays in place pending an appeal.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

Sorry I disappeared there again didn't I? Thanks for that Gary. I'm still confused about the 'fee for a service' bit that they are hanging the whole case on.

 

In my case, I wasn't allowed an overdraft on a classic account, so how would that be a fee for a service? They just charged me if I went over 0! Surely individual cases need looking at, not just lumping together - although if we do win that's fine of course!

 

Let's hope for a good decision soon.

 

BW,

Fzrkitten.

Fzrkitten

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all,

 

Hope all is well as can be with everyone, just catching up on test case news etc, seen the announcement that it's carrying on in July etc from the post on here.

 

That brings me to the order I got given on my day in court last year, and what I need to do next. Can anyone advise?:

 

Wording as follows:

 

It is ordered that:

 

Unless the Defendant indicates in writing by 4pm on 7th September 2007 that it does not consent to re-allocation, the matter is re-allocated to the Small Claims Track.

 

1. The claim is stayed until further order to await the final determination including (for the avoidance of doubt) any appeal of the claim between the office of fair trading and seven Defendant Banks issued in the High Court of Justice on the 27th July 2007 Number 2007 Folio 1186 ("The Test Case").

 

2. Either party may apply upon not less than 7 days written notice to lift the stay.

 

3. The case shall stand struck out if an application to lift or extend the stay is not received by 4.00pm on 31st July 2008.

4. No order for the costs of today.

 

5. For the avoidance of doubt the claim and/or defence, if struck out by a previous order, is reinstated.

 

Dated 7 September 2007.

 

 

It's number 3 I'm concerned with, the Judge made it clear that this is my problem, to get the stay extended, or the case will be struck out.

 

Can anyone offer advice please? I don't want to leave it too late to act now.

 

Number 5 was because I nearly won before the test case date then they took it off me, and the re-allocation bit was because they tried to fast-track it, so he put it back to small claims, and that's also why 'any previous orders' aren't valid.

 

 

Thanks as usual,

Best wishes to all,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

Fzrkitten

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Hello you! Can't say excited, do ya reckon it's gonna happen? They'll drag it out surely!

 

I'm in a bit better position now, decided to move in with Alan after 12 years, so we are selling my house shortly, and he will have control of money and bills, so I can go back to living in fairy land as far as money is concerned and pretend it does grow on trees! (I'll have pocket money and everything!) Really excited though, just been very hard work for a few months.

 

And how are you?!!!!

 

And can anyone answer my previous post, 338 I think?

 

Fzrkitten.

x

Fzrkitten

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all, can anyone advise on what I need to do to stop my case getting thrown out next month? The judge issued the following on my day in court: (And number 3 was aimed at me, not Lloyds!)

 

It is ordered that:

 

1. The claim is stayed until further order to await the final determination including (for the avoidance of doubt) any appeal of the claim between the office of fair trading and seven Defendant Banks issued in the High Court of Justice on the 27th July 2007 Number 2007 Folio 1186 ("The Test Case").

 

2. Either party may apply upon not less than 7 days written notice to lift the stay.

 

3. The case shall stand struck out if an application to lift or extend the stay is not received by 4.00pm on 31st July 2008.

 

4. No order for the costs of today.

 

5. For the avoidance of doubt the claim and/or defence, if struck out by a previous order, is reinstated.

 

Dated 7 September 2007.

 

 

It's number 3 I'm concerned with, the Judge made it clear that this is my problem, to get the stay extended, or the case will be struck out.

 

Can anyone offer advice please? I don't want to leave it too late to act now.

 

 

Thanks as usual,

Best wishes to all,

 

Fzrkitten.

Fzrkitten

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Hi, just received a letter from SC&M telling me 'how things are going' with my case (guess everyone got one?), but I'm still concerned about previous post, as it's not up to SC&M but the courts, and my court say my claim will be thrown out at end july if a decision not reached by then - any advice anyone? see previous post for order.

 

Hope everyone is ok here,

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

Fzrkitten

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Hi, just received a letter from SC&M telling me 'how things are going' with my case (guess everyone got one?), but I'm still concerned about previous post, as it's not up to SC&M but the courts, and my court say my claim will be thrown out at end july if a decision not reached by then - any advice anyone? see previous post for order.

 

Hope everyone is ok here,

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten.

x

Fzrkitten

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I've contacted a mod who is knowledgeable in this area to take a look at your post.

 

Did you apply under a Subject Access Request for documentation relating to your account under the Data Protection Act?

 

If you did I have an idea which I have passed onto the said mod for their perusal.

 

This being that if they did not include manual intervention sheets as part of your subject access request, they may be attempting to hide information relating to your claim.

 

The majority of overdraft and penalty charge decisions are entirely automated, this costing the bank as defendant a matter of pence per default of contract and not the highly inflated charges made against customers.

 

The manual intervention sheets are important as they can illustrate this, and which instances included human action and which were entirely automated.

 

The central IT banking system of a financial institutions has to deal with millions of entries, calculations, additions, subtractions and so forth a month. Whilst undoubtedly it is expensive to purchase and operate, because of the quantity of work it carries out you are talking a matter of pence for the cost per customer default of any automated process.

 

This arguement may help to get a stay lifted, and the draft order adopted.

 

Though I would wait for comment from zootscoot before considerring the above.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Hi Enron,

 

I originally started my claim just following moneysavingexpert site, but quickly found the guys here, and my story has been a long one.

 

I think we are at crossed purposes, I don't need to LIFT my stay, (well it would be nice), the courts are actually going to chuck my case out if I don't get the stay extended MYSELF after my hour in court last year. I think I just need to phone the court and check what the procedure is next.

 

They totally went on Lloyds side and said that if the case wasn't sorted by the end of July, and I don't ask for the case to stay stayed (!), then it will get chucked out.

 

Zoot or Gary or anyone - any ideas (are you still there guys?)

 

Thanks though Enron, input much appreciated,

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten

Fzrkitten

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Think you need to give them a valid reason for lifting the stay.

 

Know that some banks seem to be settling claims, as there is going to be a ruling on historical terms & conditions soon.

 

Best PM Zootscoot or GaryH

 

Heres his PM page: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=19614

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Hi Enron,

 

Ah, it's difficult to explain, I don't need to lift a stay, just that my stay will expire and my case be thrown out at the end of july, if I don't APPLY to stay the case again. They put it at my door for some reason, so it would be good to know if some claims are getting paid. Especially after Barclays dropping their charges to £8, let's hope this is the beginning of the end eh!

 

But I have a feeling my bank will hold on til the bitter end somehow...

 

Thanks again,

 

Fzrkitten.

Fzrkitten

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi lummers, sorry, been in the middle of a house move and not checked here for a week or two, but no advice, it's all gone very quiet here!

 

I might just go to the court on thursday morning (my birthday, deep joy!) and see what they say, and if I have to pay there and then I guess I will. My claim is for a large amount and has cost a lot of tears so far, I'm not letting them just chuck me out.

 

Have you heard anything since you asked me?

 

BW,

Fzrkitten.

Fzrkitten

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Hi again,

 

I just phoned my local court, and they asked if I could just write a simple letter asap, asking something like:

 

Pursuant to the order dated ******, could I please now have further directions on extending the stay on my case.

 

I'm not sure how you'd want to word it or add, but something simple should be fine. Perhaps just phone your court to see if they have different thoughts.

 

Best wishes,

 

Fzrkitten

Fzrkitten

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