GOT A COURT DATE? Important, please read......

[photoman]

Potterlogo

 

Firstly, remove your case number from your last post, it may enable you to be identified.

 

So you've applied for a strikeout, presumably on the merits of their defence?

 

Here's the lnk for anyone interested:

 

CPR - Parts and Practice Directions

 

And it looks like the judge has agreed it has merit, but given SCM some leeway to correct it.

 

I suggest you contact the court next week and get their advise on whether they have complied, and if not, what happens next.

 

 

Best regards

[GaryH]

For directions non-compliance, yes?

 

Oxford County Court by any chance?

 

Don't worry about the set-aside varied or stayed bit, thats the standard clause on all orders made of the courts own motion. This is excellent news! Just wait. When the 7 days are up call the court and I'll give you another letter. The defence will then be struck out and you win!!

 

Oh, PM - I got your PM, thanks. Very interesting. Someone will contact you this weekend.

[Johnsworld]

Hi Guys/Girls/Ladies,

 

I need a couple of pointers if you could help please.

 

The court dispensed with AQs and directed both parties to submit documents on which they intend to rely to court and the other party by 18 May 2007. My Bundle was submitted to court and bank on 18 May, but have received nothing from the bank. The trial isn't until August.

 

I didn't put the witness statement in with the bank's stuff but the court office said it's OK as long as I send them a copy now. I've drafted a big nudge letter asking for all my charges plus interest to date and have printed a new schedule.

 

I just don't know if it's the right time to ask or whether, because the bank don't seem to have complied, I should wait to hear from the court .

 

Thanks and regards,

John.

[donnalou]

im in same postion as you johnsworld more or less

my bundle had to be with bank and court by today and same of the bank tho ive not recieved theirs

i will be contacting the court tommorrow morning about their non complience i can only reccomend you do the same im afraid

[dazzabambra]

danlou and jonnsworld dont worry [problem] never send a bundle in ive won three cases now and [problem] have never submitted a bundle .

if lloyds dont just pay the money into your account soon wait till about aweek before the court date or deadline for submision ring [problem] and ask them fortheir bundle and i bet you a lloyds service charge (£35.00)lol that they settle there and then.

good luck your nearly there.

darren

[panatella]

I have a five minute hearing with the judge next week prior to the main court hearing. I have presented the documentation listed in AQ but I need a set of Terms and Conditions to present.....can anyone help me?

[GaryH]

You don't need evidence for a preliminary hearing.

[panatella]

So what exactly happens there?

[BARTY]

So what exactly happens there?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

 

Barty:)

[panatella]

So i'm finally closing in for the kill?

[Memnoch]

I have decided to add an extra bit of evidence in relation to unreasonable charges.

 

If these fees are for a service they are unreasonable etc.

 

I suggest using the Allied Irish Bank website for the Irish bank account fees and charges then the UK bank account fees and charges.

 

For returned Cheques, Direct debits or Standing orders returned unpaid the charges are below:

 

Irish branches of AIB = £4.31 (or 6.35 Euros)

Uk Branches of AIB = £25.00 (or 36.81 Euros)

 

Clearly as previously mentioned on other threads there may be some price fixing going on by UK banks.

[panatella]

Looking at the advice you've given me it seems I've sent everything except my statement of evidence.....how do I go about correcting this at this stage. My pre-trial hearing is next week.

[Makalu]

Hi GaryH.

 

I have been reading your comments and I am dealing with HSBC and LloydsTSB at the moment. I have a letter from DG Solicitors acting for HSBC that uses the word charge 3 times. It is a stalling letter asking for information they already have yet again but it says "we require an itemised list of the date of the charge, description of the charge and value of the charge.....". Is this relevant as it doesn't mention fees at all and my understanding is that the Bank's defence is based on them levying fees for a service and not charges?

 

Regards Makalu

[Johnsworld]

You are right. It is a stalling tactic.

 

I wouldn't split hairs over whether they use the word charges or fee.

 

Just send them your schedule (spreadsheet) again.

 

Regards,

John.

[Makalu]

OK thanks John. Just seen a few posts looking for information where the Banks use certain wording and thought it might be useful.

 

Regards Makalu

[Johnsworld]

Hi Makalu,

You are correct in that the banks might use different words. On my statement they were referral fees, but they are still charges on my claim. There has been some discussion about banks trying to pass off these charges as fees for a service but that's a duff defence as well. You could have alook at this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/23993-legal-arguments-support-claim.html

Regards,

John.

[Audreygreeneyes]

this might seem a stupid question but can these witness statements be used for any bank or just Lloyds?

[Johnsworld]

Hi auburngreeneyes,

I used the Lloyds' one as a basis for my own Witness Statement against Barclays. You will need to look at your bank's defence and make sure you include all the paragraphs that will counter their arguments or support your case and make sure you remove paragraphs that apply specifically to Lloyds. I also had to renumber the paragraphs because I ended up with less than the original.

Regards,

John.

[neilkiwi]

hey guys, im just awaitng court date, as llyds tsb have said that they intend to defend, what happens next ?

[broomo74]

Hi there, I 've recieved a letter headed

 

"Notice Of Hearing"

 

TAKE NOTICE that the hearing will take place on......then saying they have allowed 10 minutes for the hearing. at the bootom it says

 

PLEASE NOTE; This case may be released to another Judge, possibly at a different court.

 

This letter is stamped with my local County Court mark.

 

What should I do from here? Do I need to send anything off?

 

Regards

 

BB

[photoman]

Hi there, I 've recieved a letter headed

 

"Notice Of Hearing"

 

TAKE NOTICE that the hearing will take place on......then saying they have allowed 10 minutes for the hearing. at the bootom it says

 

PLEASE NOTE; This case may be released to another Judge, possibly at a different court.

 

This letter is stamped with my local County Court mark.

 

What should I do from here? Do I need to send anything off?

 

Regards

 

BB

 

Broomo

 

CONTACT SOME MODS BY PM NOW AS A MATTER OF URGENCY.

 

INFORM THEM YOU HAVE A COURT DATE !!!

 

PHOTOMAN

[AJX]

Hi

Today a letter arrived from Lloyds TSB solicitors along with a letter from from Birmingham courts requesting further information for the Judge by June 7th.

“The bank will be defending these proceedings on the following grounds :

1. The fees that you are seeking are properly incorporated into your contract with the bank; and

2. By making payments (whether by cheque, debit card or by any other means) from your account where you have insufficient funds to cover them, you are making a request to the bank for an increased overdraft, which the Bank may meet or decline. If it meets your request you must pay the necessary charges. The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law, where there has been a breach of contract, and there is no breach of contract here.

Looking ahead, a situation which gives rise to dispute is not one the bank wishes to continue. In view of this you are requested, please, to make contact within the next 14 days with your local branch manager to review your account. A review may be useful to consider whether your current banking arrangements are the most appropriate for your needs.

We await confirmation from the bank that this action has been taken.”

With an overdraft of £5000 and bank charges of £5000+ and following advice another account has been opened.

Advice on this will be most welcome.

[Mistermind]

....

2. By making payments (whether by cheque, debit card or by any other means) from your account where you have insufficient funds to cover them, you are making a request to the bank for an increased overdraft, which the Bank may meet or decline. If it meets your request you must pay the necessary charges. The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law, where there has been a breach of contract, and there is no breach of contract here.

.....

 

In view of the Berwick and Rudd verdicts, the T&C would appear to be the central battleground. In my view

 

The first criterion would be your actual T&C wording re exceeding o/d limit. What do they say they will do, may do, might do?

 

The second criterion would be what the bank's actual actions, and if there was a pattern to their actions.

 

If they always bounced, then they never did you any favours, never gave you any benefit, never rendered you any service. So where is the justification for a service charge, if no service then it was a breach of contract penalty. What third alternative can it be? If the bank says they expended manager time to consider honouring your unsupported cheques but always decided against it, well no-one can lay claim to a service for just thinking about it.

 

If they always paid your unsupported cheques I believe you have a problem arguing they did you no service.

 

If it was a mixture of the two, then personally I would feel safer only to reclaim against the bouncing charges, not for the honoured cheques. The CAG lawyers could clarify, if the judge throws out reclaim of one charge, is he going to dismiss all reclaims in one job lot.

 

Lloyds does seem to be racheting up the presssure, massing their army for a showdown. My own humble opinion only, please seek other advice.

 

PS. "If it meets your request you must pay the necessary charges." -- "If the bank does NOT meet your request, then what?" Is this a freudian hint you CAN reclaim charges for bounced cheques?

 

If "you must pay the necessary charges" in both circumstances, then absolutely pointless to say "If it meets your request".

 

If they will quietly allow you to reclaim charges against the bouncings, then what exactly are they? They cannot be service fees or they will not allow your reclaim under Dunlop v Garage 1910. They cannot be breach of contract penalties, because in the bank's view expressed in the next sentence, there has never been a contract breach.

 

These internal contradictions in the defence should be drawn to the judge's attention, the defence cannot argue it both ways.

[paulsuebank]

Re Witness statement for LLoyds customers (above)

Gary - this 'one hell of an argument' thank you for all the work you've done on this. I am claiming as a business

so can I confirm that all i need do is delete para 20 & 25 which refer to Consumer acts?

Also in Foot Anstey defence they deny Unfair Contract Terms Act apply to business - Is this correct?

(details here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=156006)

Cheers Paul

[mgp]

My case has now been transfered to my local court, do not have a hearing yet, when I rang the court explaining I would be preparing a court bundle they said I was jumping the gun and to wait until the judge had looked at the case as I may not even get a court date. 2 questions --

 

a) Should I start to prepare a bundle anyway?

b) Should I now send a nudge letter to my bank , if so can anyone help with a draft of this that I can use