UKPC PCN in College carpark - Update

[Andy7807]

My partner received a PCN for her vehicle being parked in a college car park without a permit, (she wasn't the driver and wasn't with the car at the time). After looking on this site we decided to fight it with the following rsults so far.

 

1. Charge certificate recieved for £40.

 

2. Wrote back saying, registered keeper is not resposnsible, she wasn't the driver please go away.

 

3. UKPC replied saying registered keeper / Owner is respsonsible, ticket on hold for 7 days for appeal.

 

4. Wrote back again stating the norm with advice from the site and PeteJ2811 by phone (thanks Pete). Also advice that would report them for harrassment etc, and would charge for our time.

 

5. Received final notice for £80 or will go to debt recovery agency.

 

6. Wrote back again stating she wasn't the driver and that we would be reporting to the police for harassment and also invoiced them for £30 for our time etc.

 

7. Also wrote to the college asking if they were happy to employ a company that uses false representations and threats to intimidate people into paying, especially hard up students.

 

8. Received letter from college asking for circumstances and if my partner attends the college (she doesn't) and they will look into it.

 

9. Received letter from UKPC stating that the Appeals manager has personnaly looked ino this (ooh wow), and has concluded there is no reason to think anything has been underhand or done wrong, however in this instance they will reduce the fine back to £40 if paid in the next 7 days otherwise it will go to their debt recovery agents. They also said they wouldn't respond to any more letters! ( the invoice must have done it.

 

My predicment is that my partner doesn't want to end up in court, is also worried about having a debt registered against us affecting our credit rating etc. Looking at other threads when the DRA contacts us, we respond saying we are in dispute and for them to return it to UKPC, what happens if they dont accept that and continue trying to recover from us?

 

I want to take this as far as we can, but my partner is a little sceptical that we can avoid this.

[Howard0181]

I would write back as follows (also tell your partner that she has little to worry about)

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: UKPC v (your name)

 

Further to your letter dated XXXX reference XXXXX I write to advise that you have no legal ability to pass this matter to a debt collector. We have a legal dispute and the only way to resolve this dispute is through the courts.

 

You have not even advised me on what basis you feel that there is any legal contract between myself and your company or the landlowner.

 

Please confirm that you have either dropped this matter or that you are proceeding to resolve the matter in the County Court.

 

Yours faithfully

[ScarletPimpernel]

If UKPC wish to waste their money on a DCA, why not let them? You can either just dispute the debt, in which case the DCA's hands are tied by the OFT guidelines, or ignore them, which will force them to hand the matter back to their clients.

 

Either way, they will have to put up or shut up.

 

I'd be inclined to write a final letter along these lines:

 

Dear Sirs

 

UKPC v ****

 

I refer to previous correspondence.

 

My position, which I have already made clear, is that I was not the driver of the car when the 'charge certificate' was issued, and am therefore not responsible for payment. I also disagree with your contention that I am liable as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

 

You have continually failed to offer any evidence of a binding contract between myself and your company or the landowner.

 

However, my offer to resolve the matter before a Judge at County Court remains extant.

 

Take notice that I am not prepared to enter into further correspondence in the matter. If you, or any company acting for you, continues to harass me I shall take further action without further notice.

 

My invoice for this letter is enclosed; kindly settle the same within 7 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Don't forget to hassle them for payment of your invoices. I have in the past successfully invoiced British Gas for sending spurious bills when I had no gas supply (and not stopping them).

[Andy7807]

Thanks for the advice, I will do as suggested, I will be interested to see how far this goes. I feel sorry for the people who pay because they think they are caught between a rock and hard place, my partner would have done the same, it's only the advice from this forum which is keeping her reasonably happy that we continue to fight it.

[Andy7807]

We have now received another letter from UKPC (looks like a photocopy as the header is black and white) saying they have passed this onto Hunter Forrest and due to their intervention the cost is now £105.24. They suggest we contact them with 7 days to avoid blah blah blah. On the front page they say they got details from DVLA advising that you were the registered keeper on the date of the offence. (interesting).

 

On the back is an FAQ, they say;

 

'as you were the registered keeper of the vehicle, you are responsible for any parking fines incurred against it' what a load of old cr*p, they go on

 

'If a third party was driving the vehicle at the time of the offence (again), it is at your discretion to obtain payment from them, however you are initially liable for the payment being made to our offices and recovery action will continue against you until payment is made' Bring it on!!

 

If we don't pay Hunter Forrest they will return it to UKPC who will consider County Court Action, well lets hope so.

 

I have written to Hunter Forrest telling them it is disputed and there is no debt to pay, further more the keeper cannot be held held liable for a contract they didn't enter into if they weren't the driver. I have suggested they pass back to UKPC to attempt to go through the court to obtain payment.

 

Looking forward to the next stage!!

[demon_x_slash]

What a bunch of jokers! But I can tell you've got just the right attitude to them now Keep us updated.

[Andy7807]

We have now recieved a letter from Hunter Forrest stating the usual, you haven't paid, we will advise UKPC to take legal action, you may have a CCJ plus solictors fees etc etc. Their file reference at the bottom of the letter says it is the second debt letter, which it isn't, unless they count the one that had a UKPC header. Tried ringing to give them some hassle, but was in a queue, why should we pay for hanging on their line?

 

Have written to HF and told them again we are not liable pass back to UKPC. Also written to UKPC just to re-iterate our point and upped our request for payment for our time etc.

 

I can see why people would want to pay when they receive these letters because if you didn't know your rights that many people write about on here, you would cr*p yourself with threats of legal court costs and CCJ's etc.

 

Looking forward to the next phase. Got the bit between my teeth now!!

[yus786]

I can see why people would want to pay when they receive these letters because if you didn't know your rights that many people write about on here, you would cr*p yourself with threats of legal court costs and CCJ's etc.

 

You are so right. I too would have paid if i ever got into this type of situation but reading thread after thread on this forum (what an excellent piece of work I'd like to add) - i now have the knowledge and support to fight.

 

All the best Andy - keep us posted.

[Zamzara]

Hunter Forrest are a front for UKPC. See here.

 

This is a breach of point 2.1 of the OFT guidelines.

[Andy7807]

I'm not so sure they are the same company. UKPC registration is 5104383 and is registered in Coventry whereas Hunter Forrest is 2692825 and address being Bromsgrove. Hunter Forrest is the new name for CCS Enforcement Services who the number still refers to at Companies House, previous to that they were BIS Credit Recovery.

 

Anyhoo, we have had another letter from HF saying that the 'registered keeper is responsible for any parking fines incurred against the vehicle. If a third party was driving the vehicle at the time of the offence, it is at your discretion to obtain payment from them.'

 

Cheeky s*ds. Complete rubbish, and what offence has been committed? Trespass in a free car park?

 

Out of a sense of mischief I couldn't resist ringing and asking under which law they made this assumption, the poor lad on the other end said 'as far as we are concerned the registered keeper is liable', asking him again under which law is it based he got shirty said he didn't know and started asking if I was a solicitor and that he couldn't comment unless my partner authorised me to speak for her due to the data protection act, again rubbish. He said he will tell UKPC that we are refusing to pay and they will start court proceedings, to which I happily said I would love to see them in court as there wasn't debt to pay, he said how can you say there is no debt, I said how can you say there is? And we said goodbye.

 

Surely there must be something that can be done about these letters that state completely false messages such as the RK is liable for all parking fines etc?

 

(sorry about all the I said, he said polava)

[Andy7807]

Had another letter today from Hunter Forrest saying that they had sent an initial letter on 30th April, (this came under UKPC headed paper). I rang to question this telling them that I had only one letter, the one on the 30th was from UKPC, as in a previous post the bored lady on the end said they send them out under cover of UKPC, why? Again told her to give it back to UKPC and get the court proceedings going because there is no debt etc, bored lady said ok.