mlilley01 vs Lloyds - no AQ req'd ?!?!

[rhsymonds]

Think I'm going to wait and see what comes through the post next.

 

I would imagine its a letter from Lloyds solicitors asking for a list of all your bank charges mlilley. Thats what i got (from HSBC) today. Luckily id already sent just such a list as soon as i got the 'no AQ required' letter, so ive probably saved myself a week of waiting for them to respond.

 

Good Luck with your claim.

[rhsymonds]

Think you're lost. This is the LLOYDS section. try posting in the HSBC one.

 

Run along.

 

Im providing help, not asking for information mlilley, there is a difference. Shame you cant tell what it is.

[mlilley01]

I would imagine its a letter from Lloyds solicitors asking for a list of all your bank charges mlilley. Thats what i got (from HSBC) today. Luckily id already sent just such a list as soon as i got the 'no AQ required' letter, so ive probably saved myself a week of waiting for them to respond.

 

Good Luck with your claim.

 

At last some sense, instead of bitching about space. Sorry, but you wound me up with the constant 'this is HSBC' line on the other thread.

 

You received the letter directly from the solicitors? I have sent 2 copies of all charges being claimed to the courts after filing with MCOL, requesting that it was attached to the claim. This is in addition to the 2 copies sent with each of my previous letters to Lloyds.

 

My main question, before all this stupidity started, was what is the next step? Do I need to respond to anything (like the letter you have received) or do I wait to hear from the courts again?

[rhsymonds]

Sorry, but you wound me up with the constant 'this is HSBC' line on the other thread.

I did not say that once mlilley, it was kimmy.

 

You received the letter directly from the solicitors?

Yes

 

I have sent 2 copies of all charges being claimed to the courts after filing with MCOL, requesting that it was attached to the claim. This is in addition to the 2 copies sent with each of my previous letters to Lloyds.

 

I have not sent additional lists of charges to anyone apart from the solicitors as nobody else has asked for them.

 

My main question, before all this stupidity started, was what is the next step? Do I need to respond to anything (like the letter you have received) or do I wait to hear from the courts again?

Id send the lateralus letter if you havent already, as soon as your local court gives you a court date the race is on for lloyds to pay you or appear in court. I think i know what they would rather do (they NEVER appear in court)

[lateralus]

hi guys - still at it i see....

congrats on posting it here -

any feedback on it just pop back and ask on hsbc or carry on here - i see it that we are all out for the same thing - no matter which bank carrys the letterhead.

as for you question - it is still too new a policy to see what will happen - in my mind - either the local judge will decide to carry on with dispensing the aq and set a court date OR the solicitors will object within the 14 days and then who knows what the judge will do OR neither party will object but the judge will be a bit old school and require an aq after all.

it just about has to be one of those three outcomes -

As always - an offer is the preferred outcome - so - send the nudging letter - it can't hurt and may bump your claim up to be dealt with.

Even though there was some aggro involved, i still feel very sorry for people who don't have the support of this site - they must really be wondering what's going on.

Good luck with your claims - feel free to visit hsbc's forum anytime - to me that's one big plus for this site - everybody mucking in to help each other (now don't go sending me any pm's about lloyd's stuff cuz i'll be stuffed). have a nice day! truly!

[amandajoy]

Thanks for this, I too received the same letter re no AQ req'd, I wonder whether there is a link to this and my additional letter to MCOL cc Lloyds enclosing charges which was advised to send on this site to stop their being a too vague argument?

Anyway, have sent the suggested letter to sols.

I have my bundle all ready, I have spent hours reading up!

I am actually quite enjoying this and am well up for attending court!! I like a good argument!

I must say the help on this site has been absloutely spot on!

[dolly]

Just to add, I got the same response the other day and I also sent schedule of charges to court and solicitors on filing the claim.

[GaryH]

This was the 1st post of the useful thread on the HSBC forum that ultimately annoyed the HSBCers. I have copied and pasted it onto here incase anyone needs to post on this subject regarding Lloyds bank, we dont want to use up any more of their posting space now do we !!

Thanks to LATERALUS for allowing this to be copied for general use.

 

Let's get this to everyone who is approaching or just reached the end of the 28 day wait, when the bank files it's defence>>>>>>>>>>>>

Up to now - we have said you'll get paperwork showing tranfer to local court, a copy of SC&M's defence AND AN ALLOCATION QUESTIONAIRE.

 

Totally new - as of yesterday - peeps are getting this from the court:

 

We have received the Notice of Transfer of Proceedings and with this is another sheet of paper saying that

 

1. The filing of an allocation qustionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise.

 

We can assume that the courts are so innundated with cases (and allocation questionaires) that they have decided to take this step.

It would appear that it means the judge MAY OR MAY NOT require an AQ to be filed. It suggests to me that the judges are fed up with the banks using the system to stall when they are perfectly aware that at the end of this great stall - the banks settle and the court system is being played to the bank's advantage. I think we will see the local judge doing one of two things - either requesting an AQ which I'm sure you will be made aware of by post OR: and think this is more likely- the judge will set a court date much earlier.

 

OK, don't panic at that info - this is, in my view, good news - as it will shorten the whole process. Let's see where this goes - it's too new to call. Most of you are aware - we are just people like you - watching and seeing what happens but the best guess is it means the banks will be forced into action much faster.

 

My one suggestion, so far is to send SC&M a letter - this lets them know that you know what's going on and it is you making an attempt to get them to move it along and will be seen by a judge in a very favourable light.

 

Here is a letter you could send when you receive that notice from the court:

 

(ADDRESS THIS LETTER TO THE SOLICITORS DEALING WITH YOUR BANK/INSTITUTIONS LEGAL CLAIMS - THIS IS Lloyds INFO)

Sechiari Clark and Mitchell

Department SO, PO Box 499

1-5 Queens Road Quadrant

Brighton

East Sussex

BN1 3XJ

 

Re: XXXXX - v - Lloyds TSB Bank PLC

account no,

claim no and filing date(mcol).

 

It has come to my attention that as of xx/xx/07, ( date of the letter from the court) that an Allocation Questionaire may not be required in this case.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £xxxx. (rounded down to nearest pound-keep this as your full amount including charges, interest and court filing fee). I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

 

For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

There will inevitably be a lot of discussion about this (the new approach by the court) and I think it would be a good idea to keep the discussion in one place and also have a place to refer to when people don't get the response at the end of 28 days that we have so confidently predicted.

 

It may come to pass that local judges will ask for the allocation questionaire and if they require one - it will undoubtedly be sent from the local court to the parties involved ( and the traditional 14 days or so to a filing deadline ). So until you hear otherwise, if the message received is that the AQ may be dispensed with in this case - take it that it has been until you hear otherwise.

 

Let the party begin.................... .

 

 

TO OTHER FORUM USERS: WELCOME, THIS IS HERE SOLELY BECAUSE I HELP WITH THIS FORUM - I DON'T SEE WHY ANY OF IT WOULDN'T APPLY TO ANY OTHER BANK/INSTITUTION - FEEL FREE TO ADD TO OUR THREAD AND USE ANY INFO -

 

 

Another thing: Lateralus wrote this thread: When you have filed your AQ................ for peeps when they had filed their AQ's.

If you haven't yet had to do an AQ - some of the info is still very pertinent to what to do next. Take a look and see how you can vary it and use the info to help you in dealing with the court and SC&M. Obviously not all of it is relevant - but some of it is and may help.

 

Whilst this most certainly won't do any harm, I can almost gaurentee that it won't do any good either. Lloyds are a different proposition to HSBC - traditionally HSBC have always paid around AQ return time, whereas Lloyds will not settle in most cases until the court date is immenant. SC&M just don't do negotiating I'm afraid!

[sasquash]

So Milley, you gonna send any letters directly to the solicitors or just wait, I'm not sure what to do? U?

[sasquash]

Thanks Gary

 

So what do you suggest? Just hang on for a while and see what happens?

[GaryH]

Also, it would'nt do any harm to continue to send in the draft order - the judge may reject it but its worth a try.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80091-your-court-dispensing-allocation.html

[RedDeath]

Whilst this most certainly won't do any harm, I can almost gaurentee that it won't do any good either. Lloyds are a different proposition to HSBC - traditionally HSBC have always paid around AQ return time, whereas Lloyds will not settle in most cases until the court date is immenant. SC&M just don't do negotiating I'm afraid!

 

I really know how to pick em. I was with Lloyds while at uni, terrible bank. Came to Scotland and jointed TSB, half decent bank and then they merged...BOOM disaster. By comparison Capital One on the other hand were sweet, immediately offered me part settlement after my prelim letter.

 

Glad to see the feud is over, one of the qualities I value most about this site is the coming together of ideas and the discussions it creates.

[Suzy75]

Just wanted to say i'm in the same position received 'Notice of Transfer of Proceedings' today with the allocation questionare part crossed out, second page stating.. 1. The filing of an allocation quest be dispensed with in this case unless the District judge at the Court of transfer orders otherwise.

Note; Any party affected by this order may under rule3.3 (5) apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed. Such party must apply under rule 23.3 within 14 days of service of this order... Not sure what that part meant?? Having read the forum was going to send letter to SC and M as per Mlilley01 suggested above then read that this was not worth doing so completely confused now?? What do i need to do next and this may sound dumb but what 'BUNDLE' do i need to be preparing for court? Please advice.. Thankyou:o

[Castlebest]

Pssssssst I wasnt here but see this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/79943-no-aq-straight-pre.html

 

Just received Today -5th April

 

From my local Court (N24) Notice of Pre Trial Review 13 July

Not 100% sure about a Pre Trial never seen it on any of the other threads

[aqua2]

This is unusual because a Pre-Trial review is part of the multi track for claims.

 

It is usually ordered after allocation in larger claims.

 

See CPR Part 29 - The Multi Track and the Practice Directions.

 

It appears to be a part of the Case Management, judge can order directions etc.

 

Could be a good time to ask for directions as you would have done on the AQ.

[lateralus]

mlilley, i've just added a big bit to my thread on the hsbc forum and thought i'd keep you in the loop. i added this to the long post - you can add it to yours or whatever you want.

 

It has been suggested by Bookworm in this thread:

Is your court dispensing with the Allocation Questionnaire?

that if you find yourself in this position - you send the Draft Direction to the court you've now been transferred to - the same as if you were filing an AQ using the new strategy:

New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

So, this would mean a cover note like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Your address]

The Court Manager

****** County Court

Court Address

Court P/code

 

 

[date]

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim Number: *******

 

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which deal with these matters satisfactorily.

 

 

In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order.

 

 

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[name]

 

 

enc: Draft Order

 

 

 

THEN ON A SEPARATE PIECE OF PAPER - THIS:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

 

AND ONE FURTHER BIT OF INFO - I KNOW IT'S DRAGGING THIS POST OUT BUT I THINK IT BEST TO HAVE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE ALL IN ONE PLACE SO:

 

If the judge were to grant the draft order it would mean that when the court asks for the info - this is it, in triplicate (one set you, one for the court and one for dg) - so DON'T do this until it is ordered by the court and it is about 5 days from being required as it is a heck of a lot of copying - probably over 200 pages times 3.

but this is the info that would be required should the draft direction be made an order:

 

If the judge agrees with the draft order and makes it a direction, it will come back to you and you will have at least 14 days (the date will be on the paperwork) to send in four things.

a) your schedule of charges.

b) your statements showing the charges. Alternatively, the list of charges which the bank provided under your S.A.R (subject Access Request) (only send the statements with charges on them.)

c) A Statement of Evidence: (post 55 in the new strategy): New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

d) All the statutes and decided cases on which your claim relies. ie, UTCCR's, UCTA's, SOGA, case law, etc. For this, I'd just submit the whole of the Basic Court Bundle.

This whole thing runs to around 200 pages and should be done in triplicate: one copy for you, one for the court and one for dg – that’s 600 pages of copying – LEAVE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW FOR SURE YOU NEED IT. If an offer comes in from DG and is accepted you wouldn’t need it. Really leave it until you have to do it to meet the deadline set by the court!

[dolly]

Just a quickie - has anyone who has had directions to have the AQ dispensed with received a copy of their defence?

[BARTY]

Just a quickie - has anyone who has had directions to have the AQ dispensed with received a copy of their defence?

Hi

This guy has:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/75165-danny-tsb.html#post720907

Barty:)

[dolly]

Thanks for that - we haven't as yet. Maybe we will when the documents come through about the court transfer.

[sasquash]

I had a letter saying that my case has been transfered and that an AQ has been dispensed with in this case. Think I'm goona wait for further correspondance from court and/or TSB's solicitors

[mlilley01]

Right then... next step. Got home from a weekend away to find a letter from Birmingham County Court on the mat.. the letter is a Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing).

 

It reads:

 

District Judge Cooke has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track. (odd, as no AQ's were ever submitted!!)

The hearing of the claim will take place at 15:00 on the 8th May 2007 at Birmingham County Court, Civil Justice Centre, The Priory Courts, blah blah blah, and should take no longer than 1 hour.

The court must be informed immediately if the case is settled by agreement before the hearing date.

1. This case is one of a number listed on the same date. Both parties must be ready for trial on that date. Depending on the number of cases preceeding on that date, the judge will give directions as to the order in which they will be heard, which may involve grouping cases raising similar issues and/or adjourning some cases to a later date.

2. If the claim is settled, the Claimant must promptly give notice in writing to the court stating that the claim is discontinued.

3. Any party may rely as evidence on a statement of case (if verified by statement of truth). Evidence of witnesses will be given in writing only, by way of sworn affidavit or witness statement verified by statement of truth.

4. Any witness evidence or documents to be relied on by the Claimant must be filed at court and served on the Defendant not later than 21 days before the hearing. Any witness evidence or documents to be relied on by the Defendant must be filed at court and served on the Claimant not later than 7 days before the hearing.

5. It will not be necessary for any party to file or exhibit a copy of the OFT report 'Calculating fair default charges in credit card contracts' though it may be referred to in any written evidence.

6. Each party must provide its docments and written evidence (including a copy of any statement of case relied on) in a single bound paginated bundle clearly marked on the front with the case number and names of the parties.

7. No cross examination of witnesses will be permitted, except with permission of the court.

8. No expert evidence is permitted (this does not prevent a suitable witness on behalf of a bank or card provider giving evidence of fact as to the manner in which charges are determined by it).

9. The Claimant must, if he has not already done so, include in his bundle of documents a full list of the charges disputed, specifying the date and ammount of each and the reason given for it.

10. If any party relies on written submissions or a skeleton argument, it must be filed at court and served on the party at least 2 days before the hearing.

 

My question is do I need to just prepare my documents and take them with me, or is that considered a skeleton argument and need to be submitted 2 days before as quoted in point 10 ? As the date is 9 days away, it sort of means I cant send anything to court and defendant as per section 4.

 

What do I do now??? sort of confused again, and the hearing is a week on Tuesday?!?!?

[mlilley01]

And one other question, is it normal for a court date to be so soon? Most I have read about on here are a while away, I've been given 9 days notice. Is this another way of the courts trying to speed up the settlement process???

[dolly]

Maybe you have been squeezed in? Definitely give them a call about it in the morning as theoretically you should have had your evidence in, according to them.

 

When was the allocation notice issued, what date?

[mlilley01]

Maybe you have been squeezed in? Definitely give them a call about it in the morning as theoretically you should have had your evidence in, according to them.

 

When was the allocation notice issued, what date?

 

 

The notice is dated the 26th April, and it must have arrived yesterday, 28th April, with a court date of 8th May.

 

i presume i just call the courts to ask???......

[GaryH]

You need a witness statement and the basic court bundle.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/82148-got-court-date-important.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/33060-basic-court-bundle.html

 

Get it in ASAP!