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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Jay vs NatWest


JayC82
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Hi folks,

 

I'm new to this site. Just hoping for some help.

 

In November 2006 I wrote to NatWest and sent a cheque for £10, in request for the last 6 years of statements from my account. They wrote back to me before their 40 days to respond was up and stated that, as I'd written from an address different to that on the account at the time, they needed me to go into a branch and confirm my current address before they could send me the statements. Fair enough, I thought. They also confirmed that they had cashed the cheque for the statements.

 

The 40 days was up on December 31st, and I've heard nothing since. The letter did not have a contact phone number on it.

 

I asked in a branch what to do and they said the statements should automatically get sent out anytime. So I waited, and nothing.

 

Since then I've had a lot on my plate and keep meaning to get back onto this but then something comes up and I forget to persue it.

 

Now I've just had my car break down, 3 MONTHS after buying it from carcraft (first mistake I know!) and now have a £3k bill for a new engine. So getting tis money back has become essential rather than something of a bonus to me.

 

Any help on what to do next is much appreciated. :)

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Jayc82,

Have a look at these,http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/ .Sorry to hear about your problems. Its your money obviously better in your pocket than theirs. Plenty of help available here. Good luck.

A person is only as big as the dream they dare to live.

 

 

Good things come to he who waits

 

 

Its your money taken unlawfully from your account and you have a legal right to claim it back.

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I've just written the following:

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

On the 17th November 2006 I wrote to yourselves to make a Data Protection Act disclosure request in relation to my account, XXXXXXXX. I have enclosed a copy of the original letter for your review. At the time of sending the original letter to yourselves, I enclosed a cheque for £10 to cover the request. I later received a response regarding my request which informed me of the need to confirm my address with my branch before any statements would be sent, and which also confirmed that my cheque had been cashed as payment for my statements.

I confirmed a change of address with yourselves and waited patiently. Unfortunately, no statements have been forthcoming, and we are now 130 days from the date of the original claim.

Since the original 40 days in which the bank must issue my statements has passed, as of December 27th 2006, I am writing to request delivery of the statements ASAP, and do not think I am being unreasonable in allowing 7 days for this before making an official complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office for a breach of DPA and also raising an official complaint with yourselves.

Sincerely,

James Carter

 

I'm writing to the big Headquarters in Leeds as that's where my account is held and also where I wrote my original letter to.

 

Does that sound ok to send?

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Hi Jay - SAR's should really be sent to the Edinburgh address (livelylad has a stickie on this just above the main threads). I'd be inclined to send this letter to Edinburgh, but c.c. your own branch in if you've already been dealing with them on the DP stuff. You'll probably get a much quicker response from Edinburgh though. Good luck, hedgey xx ;)

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Try this address Jay:

 

Retail Regulatory Risk

2nd Floor

Cornerstone

60 South Gyle Crescent

Edinburgh

EH12 9WF

Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's

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Yesterday I sent my letter off to Edinburgh and also a copy to the Leeds head office. Sent via recorded and also enclosed a copy of my original letter.

 

Will let you know how I get on guys!

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Onwards and upwards now for you Jay. Good luck.

A person is only as big as the dream they dare to live.

 

 

Good things come to he who waits

 

 

Its your money taken unlawfully from your account and you have a legal right to claim it back.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well folks, I've had nothing from Natwest. Nothing at all!

 

Feel like they have shown me complete and utter contempt. They send out the statements for everyone else but I can't seem to get anywhere!

 

I'm giving it til the end of this week then if nothing happens I'm reporting them to the info commissioner's office. But even after I do that, how do I get my hands on the bloody statements?

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Jay,

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html. this should get you your statements.They have to answer to the info commisioner. Good luck.

A person is only as big as the dream they dare to live.

 

 

Good things come to he who waits

 

 

Its your money taken unlawfully from your account and you have a legal right to claim it back.

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This thgread seems to be typical of weay that Nat West treat their customers-when thing go well they cannot do enough for us but when things turn against them then they become aggressive and treat you like something that you have trod on.

 

Go with the non compliance angle Jay-let them see that the worm has turned.

 

Also they are faced with a court case themselves this week so the outcome of that could have a huge impact on the claims.

PPMAN159

 

If this comment has helped please click on the scales.

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Thanks folks. Do I go straight to the Template 3 letter seeing as 40 days passed 3 months ago and I've now also given them a further chance to send me my statements?

 

They need to know I'm not going away!

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I would-they have cashed your cheque so this means that they have received your original request so why give them any longer?

PPMAN159

 

If this comment has helped please click on the scales.

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:) Hi Jay

 

Whilst I agree that NW have TOTALLY breached the DPA here and that you are now in a position to sue them for non compliance etc....presumably what you really want is your darn statements!

 

Give this number a call, 08456052605, I and many others have had success chasing up statements with it. The staff are usually helpful, my business statements took 5 months to arrive, till i chased them up.

 

Hope it works, good luck

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Hi Katie, thanks for your help. Unfortunately me not having phone banking set up means they couldn't help on that number but they did put me through to a very helpful girl at Leeds Banking HQ (my branch) who promised to track down and if need be re-order my statements, and call me with an update on Monday :)

 

She said they may need proof of the £10 being cashed but I said they can take it out of my account again if need be and I will reclaim it later, rather than be held up trying to find a statement to prove the tenner was cashed (it was done from my mum's account as I have no cheque book!) so it looks like progress is being made! Yay!

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Hi Katie, thanks for your help. Unfortunately me not having phone banking set up means they couldn't help on that number but they did put me through to a very helpful girl at Leeds Banking HQ (my branch) who promised to track down and if need be re-order my statements, and call me with an update on Monday :)

 

She said they may need proof of the £10 being cashed but I said they can take it out of my account again if need be and I will reclaim it later, rather than be held up trying to find a statement to prove the tenner was cashed (it was done from my mum's account as I have no cheque book!) so it looks like progress is being made! Yay!

 

Thats weird, I didnt have phone banking set up either?:confused: But if they put you through to someone helpful, then thats really good news.

Did they offer to send your statements for a fiver?

 

Hope you get them soon :)

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