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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Full and Final with Cabot


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My girlfriend had a Barclaycard with a credit limit of £500 which she defaulted on. Her credit report shows that the default occurred on 06/05/04 and that the debt is now with Kings Hill (or is it Cabot?).

 

We phoned Kingshill/Cabot today and they said the balance is now £888 and that they bought the debt on 27/05/05. I said to them that this amount is challengable because it undoubtedly includes default charges added by Barclaycard. They said that they havent added any charges and are only adding interest. I queried this as I thought only the original creditor could add interest but the person I spoke to said that Kingshill/Cabot are allowed to add interest and this is contained in the original contract. Is this correct?

 

They have said that we can write to them to find out what charges have been added and we plan to do this.

 

My girlfriend wants to make a full and final settlement on the debt as she doesnt dispute she owes it. and wants to clear the debt on her credit report. However she doesnt want to pay anywhere near the £800 Kingshill/Cabot said they wanted, especially as the original credit limit was £500.

 

We would be grateful for any thoughts with how we should proceed on this one and also what content we should put in our initial letter to Kingshill/Cabot.

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First thing is to put this in dispute to stop Cabot adding any more to it. Get a CCA off to them ASAP, ensuring you have in there somewhere, "I do not acknowledge any debt to you."

 

Remember to send them £1 as their statutory fee, and also impress on them that the fee is ONLY to be used in respect of the request, in case they try their usual "thanks for your initial payment" nonsense.

 

It looks like the extra might also be made up of unlawful charges that Barclaycard may have applied to the account. So it is important to SAR Barclaycard (with your £10 fee) to get an idea of what you might be entitled to claim back from them, if anything.

 

Once you know where you stand, you'll be in a better negotiating position, and will be able to offer to start paying Cabot based on the correct amount.

 

Take it from there, and do keep us up to date. And welcome to the Club. :)

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Hi, very interesting situation.

Firtsly has your girlfriend received a Notice of Assignment regarding the debt?

Secondley, there is no such thing as full and final settlement under english law unless it has been agreed in writing prior to payment. Don't make the mistake of sending money in F & F and expecting it to end there, they will be able to come after the balance, all they have to do is inform you that it is not accepted in F & F and is a part payment.

However there is some good news.

1).If the money was paid by way of a cheque from a "Third Party" in F & F then they are obliged to accept it as such if the cheque is cashed.

2). You can also send a cheque for F & F on the basis that the £550.00 is agreed but that the aditional costs are disputed. You would then need to include another sum on the cheque as well as the £550.00 which relates to the disputed amount.

I would siggest that a covering letter using similar format to this statement be used.

I admit the sum of £550.00 being owed to you but dispute the remiander of the claimed debt. I therefore enclosed a cheque to the value of £555.00 in Full & Final Settlement of this claim, (hopefully they will think that it is merely a mistake). This should also be written on the back of the cheque and an instruction given to the Bank to return the cheque to you upon clearance.

If they then encash the cheque at £555.00 they have technically eccepted the additional £5.00 as settlement to the balance and will not be successful if they try and claim the rest of the balance.

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If they then encash the cheque at £555.00 they have technically eccepted the additional £5.00 as settlement to the balance and will not be successful if they try and claim the rest of the balance.

 

How does this work then ?

Just hate every DCA out there

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But why bother sending ANY settlement until there is evidence that this is the amount owed? There is nothing yet to suggest that the amount claimed is actually owed, until such time as Barclaycard can come up with statements showing what was charged on the account in the first place.

 

If, for sake of argument, £250 of the original £500 is made up of unfair penalties, then clearly there was never £500 owed in the first place, and it might be argued, would never have resulted in a default in that case.

 

I'd wait until Barclaycard come up with something concrete.

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In essence if they cash the cheque they have acepted the extra amount in settlement of the balance as you have stated that it is a disputed amount. They will argue the toss but I do not know of a Court that would uphold any action after acceptance of the money on these terms.

As I stated before about 3rd party cheques if you send the payment from a 3rd party as well, they are in even more difficulties.

 

How does this work then ?
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Hi, very interesting situation.

Firtsly has your girlfriend received a Notice of Assignment regarding the debt?

Secondley, there is no such thing as full and final settlement under english law unless it has been agreed in writing prior to payment. Don't make the mistake of sending money in F & F and expecting it to end there, they will be able to come after the balance, all they have to do is inform you that it is not accepted in F & F and is a part payment.

However there is some good news.

1).If the money was paid by way of a cheque from a "Third Party" in F & F then they are obliged to accept it as such if the cheque is cashed.

2). You can also send a cheque for F & F on the basis that the £550.00 is agreed but that the aditional costs are disputed. You would then need to include another sum on the cheque as well as the £550.00 which relates to the disputed amount.

I would siggest that a covering letter using similar format to this statement be used.

I admit the sum of £550.00 being owed to you but dispute the remiander of the claimed debt. I therefore enclosed a cheque to the value of £555.00 in Full & Final Settlement of this claim, (hopefully they will think that it is merely a mistake). This should also be written on the back of the cheque and an instruction given to the Bank to return the cheque to you upon clearance.

If they then encash the cheque at £555.00 they have technically eccepted the additional £5.00 as settlement to the balance and will not be successful if they try and claim the rest of the balance.

 

I agree with this idea but I think if it is not clearly worded in a covering letter that the encashment of this cheque is full and final settlement I think they would be able to justify chasing the rest to a judge.

 

But if like the Clydesdale Bank you include this line encashment of this cheque is full and final settlement in your letter with the cheque then it does stand up in a court , Clydesdale are winning these arguements all over the place. they send a cheque for 50% of the charges requested with that line in the letter and when they are in court for the other 50% they produce the letter and the judge agrees that the encashment ends the claim.

 

Might be wortha try if someone is willing to pay cabot as the £500 would still be a significant profit to them and they may see the £££££ signs and just cash it anyway.

 

nice idea worth thinking about it.

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Thanks for your comments so far.

 

The CCA request is being posted today (should it be recorded delivery?) and we are still trying to trace the original account details for Barclaycard as Cabot did not have them, or just didnt want to give them to us!

 

As for the settlement I have to agree with Seahorse. We wont be sending any payment, or even discussing a payment, until we have confirmed exactly how much is owed. At the time when we are ready to negotiate a final settlement I will be demanding that Cabot write to us first confirming they accept the agreed amount (whatevet it may be) in full and final settlement of the debt, and also that they agree to mark the debt as satisfied on my girlfriend's credit report. Only when this letter is received will we make payment.

 

By reading the other threads on CAG I reckon there is a good chance that Cabot wont be able to respond to the CCA request either in time or with the required information. If this happens we are in a much stronger position to negotiate a lower full and final settlement. So lets see what happens!

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Forgot to say that my girlfriend has never received anything from Cabot, including a Notice of Assignment. However she has moved house a few times over the last few years so it may have been sent at some point. We have requested a copy of this in the CCA request letter we are sending.

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Forgot to say that my girlfriend has never received anything from Cabot, including a Notice of Assignment. However she has moved house a few times over the last few years so it may have been sent at some point. We have requested a copy of this in the CCA request letter we are sending.

 

Yes, the cca should be sent recorded.

Just hate every DCA out there

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As stated before there is no rule of English Law that allows for settlement of a debt at a lower value than that claimed when that value as been oferred in F & F settlement if it has not been agreed in advance. This is an American rule not English Law.

Should you want the bibliography it is Stour Valley Builders (a firm) v Stuart and Another.

Lord Justice Lloyd stated that Day v McLea (1889) 22 QB 610 was binding authority against the application of such a rule. The Court held that the keeping of the cheque was not a matter of Law conclusive and it was a question of fact as to on what terms the cheque was kept.

 

 

 

I agree with this idea but I think if it is not clearly worded in a covering letter that the encashment of this cheque is full and final settlement I think they would be able to justify chasing the rest to a judge.

 

But if like the Clydesdale Bank you include this line encashment of this cheque is full and final settlement in your letter with the cheque then it does stand up in a court , Clydesdale are winning these arguements all over the place. they send a cheque for 50% of the charges requested with that line in the letter and when they are in court for the other 50% they produce the letter and the judge agrees that the encashment ends the claim.

 

Might be wortha try if someone is willing to pay cabot as the £500 would still be a significant profit to them and they may see the £££££ signs and just cash it anyway.

 

nice idea worth thinking about it.

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If Cabot can't come up with any idea of your original Barclaycard account details, how the hell would they expect to show that a debt exists in the first place? They could hardly go to Mr Judge and just say, sorry your honour, I KNOW we haven't a clue what account it is we're chasing, but we do promise you we know this amount is correct. Honest. Really, it is. We're not making this up off the top of our head.

 

So. If they DO have your account details, it'll be in amongst your personal details. Which you can SAR with a tenner and request as is your right under the DPA.

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  • 3 weeks later...

We have had a response from Cabot to the CCA request and big surprise :o its like the standard letter they have sent to most people. The main bits are;

 

Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd, formerly Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd, which is part of the Cabot Financial group of companies, purchased your account from Barclaycard and therefore Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd is the legal owner.

 

The rights but not the duties were assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd in dealing with your account and therefore we are legally entitled to collect.

 

We will assist you in providing a copy of the agreement and statement of account but please note that we are not obliged to, as we are not the creditor. It really has amazed now we have received the letter that they think they can pick and choose what parts of the Consumer Credit Act to adhere to. Surely we could just say to them we are not obliged to pay you anything cause you are not the creditor!

We will also arrange for a copy of the Notice of Assignment to be forwarded to you. This letter constitutes written notice of the assignment under Section 25 of the Law of Property Act and therefore we have no need to provide a copy of the assignment deed itself. Sounds like crap to me and have they contradicted themselves by saying they will supply a copy and then saying they have no need to provide a copy of the assignment deed itself?

We have contacted Barclaycard concerning the above and although we anticipate a reply within the next 21 days, it can take up to 8 weeks if the information we require has been archived, and we therefore request your understanding in this matter. No chance whatsoever of us being understanding in this matter, cant wait to go full steam ahead with complaints etc!

Ok peeps what do you think should be our next action. Should I write back saying I think they are talking crap and they do have duty under the Consumer Credit Act or should I wait for the month to expire and have them commit an offence?

 

Also we are really keen to get this debt sorted on my girlfriend's credit report as we will be getting a mortgage soon. Anyone got any thoughts on how we could try and get it removed now?

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Yup. Just wait and let them hang themselves. No point in tipping them off that you are a member of the Fan Club. And as their letter is the normal template, thay can hardly identify you on here from that. :D

 

Have you contacted the original creditor yet to SAR them for ststements? You've a far better chance of knowing where you stand then, and could conceivably end up being owed at least some of that cash back.

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Yeah the SAR is gone and awaiting a reply.

 

When Cabot responded they also sent a short statement of the account. They took the debt over when the balance was £730 and the original credit limit was £500 so I reckon there is going to be a fairly large amount of charges which can be claimed back.

 

The other thing I cant get my head around is how Cabot can charge interest, which they have. Surely for them to charge interest another credit agreement would need to be signed. Even if thats not the case they are happy to charge interest but not accept any duties under the Consumer Credit Act, bizarre!

 

I am normally a patient person but I cant wait for the month to expire!

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I've got the CCA and DPA in my bathroom - I kid ye not.

  • Barclays: WON!!! It took four months but was totally worth it!
  • Cabot: I'm still waiting for an enforcable agreement, more than a year after requesting it. Go on, Uncle Ken, take me to court if you dare. You know you want to!
  • Elephant.co.uk: VICTORY - they admitted there was no debt!
  • Ashbourne Management (gym membership): Finally got my default removed and out-of-court settlement; I'm not finished with them yet!

<--- If I've been helpful please remember the scales ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Right the month has expired for Cabot to respond to the CCA request and no response received,thats a surprise!:eek:

 

Also no response from Barclaycard to date for the SAR and the 40 days is almost up for them.

 

What is the next course of action for both Cabot and Barclaycard?

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Try reading the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. This I think this is the relevant piece of legislation that will enable Cabot to continue to charge interest.

You should check your original agreement and see if it is included in the contract and if there is a right to transfer the conditions of the contract to a third party or not, if it is not included then they can't charge you additional interest.

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Try reading the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. This I think this is the relevant piece of legislation that will enable Cabot to continue to charge interest.

You should check your original agreement and see if it is included in the contract and if there is a right to transfer the conditions of the contract to a third party or not, if it is not included then they can't charge you additional interest.

 

 

 

Hi,

 

 

What agreement? Cabot rarely get hold of such things!

 

 

Jeff.

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Hi Jeff

Its the original contract with Barclay card.

If Cabot haven't got it or a copy of it they can't apply any of the conditions that may be included in it as they will not be aware of what they can and can't do.

If the orignal contract has a clause that allows for the charging of interest but does not state that it is transferrable under the Act then they can only seek to recover the actual amount of the debt that was purchased.

Cabot or anybody else would have a very difficult time proving their right to charge interest as there is "no causal relationship" between the debtor and Cabot, only the purchase of the debt.

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Hi,

 

Yes I agree.

 

My point was, that Cabot make all sorts of claims as to what they are entitled to do (Add interest, process data etc). Yet when it comes to asking them for proof of these so called rights, they can very rarely produce a copy of the executed agreement.

 

In fact they have never seen the agreement, and basically admit this in replies to CCA requests.

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

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