Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card

[zubo]

Look at it again Z then say 'Doh!'

 

doh...(humble - why blank that?? I missed it)

 

but as you said - a serious amount missing and it is an application form....

 

Z

[zubo]

not sure what admins are doing...

 

i assume its an admin - maybe they dont like the idea????

 

ok its been moved to here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/79147-consumer-credit-act-resources.html

[tifo]

i have received a few application forms like this which the DCA state is their compliance of the 'executed agreement'.

 

so, is it or not?

[m55dlc]

i have received a few application forms like this which the DCA state is their compliance of the 'executed agreement'.

 

so, is it or not?

It isn't an enforceable agreement, that is for sure. It does contain the signatures of both parties, but a number of the prescribed terms are missing. A judge cannot enforce this 'agreement'. It is an application form, but an executed one (if that makes sense). It isn't an agreement (IMO)

[zubo]

It isn't an enforceable agreement, that is for sure. It does contain the signatures of both parties, but a number of the prescribed terms are missing. A judge cannot enforce this 'agreement'. It is an application form, but an executed one (if that makes sense). It isn't an agreement (IMO)

 

agreed LOL

 

Write back to each thanking them kindly for the copy of the precontractual application and asking if they would mind awfully if they could now supply the subsequent agreement,

 

Z

[m55dlc]

Humbleman

 

If there are no terms and conditions, and there isn't a signed statement of account, they haven't complied with the s77/8 request. You can either tell them of this and wait for them to send the statement and/or the T&C's, or you could go the whole hog and state as Z is advocating, that you didn't ask for the application form but wanted the actual agreement.

[InKogneeToh]

its an application form...

 

also where exactly are the financial prescribed terms... their signature..

 

gotta go

 

Z

 

Hi

 

It doesn't matter what they want to call this document, it is still totally, completely and utterly unenforceable as there are no terms whatsoever, let alone the prescribed terms that MUST be in the signature document of a regulated agreement!

 

BUT - as always I strongly recommend writing again and requesting that they send a copy of the actual regulated agreement - just in case they have one!!

 

Regards, Pam

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hi Maria

 

I have also seen this. Don't go wasting the £30 they are charging for a report on your agreement though! It is easy enough to show why your particular agreement is unenforceable by simply reading the CCA's regulations.

 

I will get back to you this evening about wording for a letter unless Dave or anyone else does it first, and also about the PPI/Medicare issue.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hello Pam,

 

 

Thank you...see you are still awake as well.i am trying to read as many information as possible....to prepare myself and get ready for a big argument...if it would be one:)))

 

Will wait for your respond re: agreement letter wording, PPI and Medicare:)))))

 

Kind regards,

 

Maria

[InKogneeToh]

 

Will wait for your respond re: agreement letter wording, PPI and Medicare:)))))

 

 

Hi Maria

 

I haven't forgotten about you but I need a clear head to think about this and have been busy with my 'other life' this evening!

 

Will get back to you tomorrow - promise!

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Thanks very much for the 'click' Lantana - much appreciated!

 

Regards, Pam

[davefirewalker]

Hi everyone...

 

I decided that my document was definetley an application and have written to them stating such.......see below

 

2 April 2007

Morgan Stanley Bank Intl. Ltd.

 

Dear Sirs

Ref account **************

 

With regard to the documents that you sent me in relation to my request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I am still waiting for the signed executed agreement. You seem to have sent me an application form and a somewhat recent copy of your terms and conditions and a very recent copy of an agreement form unsigned by anyone. I’m sure this must be an oversight, so I will ask you again for the proper documents.

I draw your attention to section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 (an excerpt enclosed for your perusal) in that

“(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner.”

Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and YOU are now in default and very shortly you will have committed a criminal offence. As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

This account is still in dispute and I still forbid the passing of any data to third parties, if any data has been processed illegally since my last request I shall take appropriate action.

Further if you cannot supply the proper documents and you have entered any defaults against my name I require that you remove them immediately.

I shall be carefully considering my options and next actions.

I await your response.

 

lets see if that rattles their cage....

 

also on a further note regarding agreements have a GOOD read of the doc at this link. its the OFT guidelines for credit agreements. its the 2004 version though. the 1983 version must exist somewhere.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft786a.pdf

 

IT MAKES INTERESTING READING

 

Dave

[rinkydinkydoo]

Hi everyone...

 

I decided that my document was definetley an application and have written to them stating such.......see below

 

2 April 2007

Morgan Stanley Bank Intl. Ltd.

 

Dear Sirs

Ref account **************

 

With regard to the documents that you sent me in relation to my request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I am still waiting for the signed executed agreement. You seem to have sent me an application form and a somewhat recent copy of your terms and conditions and a very recent copy of an agreement form unsigned by anyone. I’m sure this must be an oversight, so I will ask you again for the proper documents.

I draw your attention to section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 (an excerpt enclosed for your perusal) in that

“(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner.”

Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and YOU are now in default and very shortly you will have committed a criminal offence. As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

This account is still in dispute and I still forbid the passing of any data to third parties, if any data has been processed illegally since my last request I shall take appropriate action.

Further if you cannot supply the proper documents and you have entered any defaults against my name I require that you remove them immediately.

I shall be carefully considering my options and next actions.

I await your response.

 

lets see if that rattles their cage....

 

also on a further note regarding agreements have a GOOD read of the doc at this link. its the OFT guidelines for credit agreements. its the 2004 version though. the 1983 version must exist somewhere.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft786a.pdf

 

IT MAKES INTERESTING READING

 

Dave

Hi, what a great letter, I will use it if you dont mind to send to NCO and the oh so dreadful Monument, regards

rinkydinkydoo:)

[davefirewalker]

no probs.....I'm having a go at monument as well....they are now in default too

 

Dave

[rinkydinkydoo]

They are the bain of my life at the moment, lol, Monument that is.

[davefirewalker]

Hi rinky

 

they havent upset me as yet.......but Ive just noticed that they have been putting on a "payment break" charge of about £25. this is something I never agreed to.

 

So Ive stopped the dd's and sent them a cca request. they have been in default since 28 mar. the dd is supposed to come out on the 12th so i'll wait until they start calling me.

 

i think that they are going to be sorry that they did it...

 

Dave

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello everyone:))))

Great letter Dave:))

I have received a copy of WF defence..a bit suprised...reading through it...Need a deep breath....and support......

 

 

regards,

 

 

Maria

[davefirewalker]

have you got your scanner working yet... if you have email me a copy and let pam have a look at it too......she seems a whiz with these things and I bow to her superior knowledge

 

take that deep breath

stay calm

and go for them

 

best wishes

 

dave

[itsmeandonlyme]

Will send you a Pam a copy..and also a copy of SOC.....already had a cold shower:))))doesn't help...................

[InKogneeToh]

As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

 

HI Dave

 

Good letter but remember that for a 'copy' agreement sent under this and other sections of the Act, the creditor may omit the signatures and the name/address of the debtor. Strange, but true!

 

But, if they want to sue you, they will need to show the signatures as well so IMO they might as well not 'omit' them from they copy they send.

 

Regards, Pam

[davefirewalker]

Thanks for that pam

 

we'll see how it goes......... I'll keep you lot posted

Have you seen itsme's Bulls**t reply from welcome? not quite had chance to go over it properly yet. It suprises me that they are taking this one that far.....considering the agreement status in the first place. and I noticed a claim for costs???? (500) if it goes through the small claims court they wont get any !!! (even if they win, which they probably wont)

 

dave

[kennyparkroad]

great letter!

[m55dlc]

What have WF said in their letter? Please tell me someone.... PM me for an email address to send the letter to, many thanks

[itsmeandonlyme]

What have WF said in their letter? Please tell me someone.... PM me for an email address to send the letter to, many thanks

hello M55dlc, its a defence letter in which they are requesting "not more than £500" if they win...I can email it to you need all the help and advise as i can get....................and Dave and Pam are looking through this claim now....My thread is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/58571-itsme-welcome-finance.html.

 

 

 

Dave, i also do not think they realise that there is a fundamental mistakes in the agreement.....so i will let them know:))))

 

Regards,

 

Maria

[carinas]

Hi everyone!

 

Hi Itsme my fellow welcome fighter... we seem to be on all the same threads!

 

Dave / Pam... thought i'd jump on Itsme's bandwagon and see if i can get you guys onside as i am awaiting Welcomes defence... due through any day now. Dave, you seem to know a bit about Welcomes agreements! Well they have admitted to me that they do not have a signed agreement for either of my HP agreements and they wiped the last remaining amount of the debt. Yet i have issued a claim at court (for charges etc) and they have given notice of intent to defend. Which i find laughable seeing as they have no proof that i ever signed an agreement in the first place. If you wish to have a read of the defence when it comes through your more than "Welcome" (pardon the pun!)

[Peterbard]

Hi

This takes a bit of thinkiing about it is something that has come up before.

If you are claiming unfair penalty charges then you would have had an account,but you have just shown that one never existed. I would be interested to see hear if their defense picked up on this.

 

Regards

Peter