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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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NeilP .v. Abbey National Plc *** WON AS WELL!!!**


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I hope it's tomorrow as well, otherwise tomorrow i'll look rather silly to find out that it was yesterday that i should have been there and that yesterday i actually should have saying i was in court today!!!!:-x

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Yes - good luck Neil.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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The suspense is killing me! I've gotta go out for the night now! Damn ;)

Abbey - Won DPA Claim - Aug 06 and got bailiffs in to recover my court costs of just £30.00

Abbey - Won Charges Refund of £1050 - Nov 06

Egg - Recovered £220 due to Customer Services misinformation - Feb 2007

Nat West - Prelinimary Letter to recover on Credit Card charges £30.00 sent March 2006. £25.40 offered - rejected and the bank reckons that this is it's last word on the matter. We'll see if that's still the case when it reads my N1 form sent recently. It has until the 17th April to respond or the N1 will be submitted.

 

Please check out my web site www.BankChargesScandal.co.uk for Research, Useful links and my story.

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Neil - how did it go?

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I'M BACK!!

 

Hold your horses, i've only just walked in the door!!

 

Needless to say, Abbey got the Judgement put aside. Not a surprise really as quite how i'm suppose to argue that they don't have a 'meriticious' defence when the Judge doesn't want ti discuss the case is beyond me. So really it was a done deal before i even got there.

 

I have 7 days in which to let Abbey have a breakdown of my claim. They then have a further 21 days in which to file a proper defence (which they said they couldn't do as they didn't have a proper breakdown of the claim total).

 

There were a couple of eye openers, which i will share with you, however......

 

I've got to straight out to A&E with my son now (the day only gets better!) so i will be back online later on...... i hope.

 

Neil.

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I gather they weren't the most accommodating of defendants then...can't wait to hear the details, as we will be popping down for Whizz's hearing on Friday.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Waiting with baited breath, need to stop just refreshing this thread to find out what happened!

Abbey - £1255.12 + interest - 50% offer refused, Allocation Questionnaire returned 07/08/06 :cool:

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Abbey had sent a Barrister to do their dirty work, so i take that as a sign that they were serious about getting the Judgement set aside.

 

At about 2.45pm, with only 15 minutes remaining until we were due to go in, their barrister hands me a ringbinder with their 'outline submissions in support of application to set aside judgement in default'. This was basically the 'skeleton defence' that their barrister had put together thus rendering the scathing defence with regards their Witness Statement that i had put together with Whizzkid and Bankfodder virtually useless as it would be this new document that the judge would be focussing on.

 

(Well that is what i thought. When we got in there it was commented on that i hadn't sent in a reply to the witness statement)

 

Once inside (accompanied by Seminole and Whizzkid001) the Judge wrote down the names of everyone, and asked the barrister if she had any objection to Seminole being there, she said no, and to Whizzkid - to which she said, 'If it's the same person as i am seeing in court on Friday under similar circumstances then yes i do!' So unfortunately, Whizzkid was sent out of the hearing. Quite why, as presumably Abbey have nothing to hide, and she must realise that we would be talking afterwards...... Oh well.

 

Abby tried to sneak the fact passed the judge that it took them 21 days to send my Claim Papers to the wrong department, and then another 6 days to forward it onto their Legal Dept. Needless to say we put them right on that score - and the Judge was not impressed and made some rather scathing comments about their lack of professionalism!!

 

The Judge then asked why the Defence (Abbey) had not submitted a full defence yet. Their answer was that they did not have the full breakdown of my claim, and therefore could not complete their defence (regardless of the fact that they have it all at their fingertips on their computer system!!).

 

And having made it perfectly clear that she didn't want to discuss the case, she asked me what i had to say about their defence. What can i say to that will blow apart their defence, if i'm not allowed to challenge it then and there? Nothing.

 

I even tried to state that this was Abbey's way of dealing with these things, get it into the Court System hoping that the claimant will give up, then realising that they wont they start to offer settlements. But the Judge said 'we are only talking about this case here though'. ()

 

So, after 20 minutes, the Judge ruled that as the case was 'complicated' she would set the judgement aside.

 

Could i prove what the costs were for (ie what were the charges doe bounced DD, Overdraft interest etc), she asked afterward judgement had been passed. Yes, but as i had had my original spreadsheet deleted (don't ask me how) and my new one didn't quite match, the particulars of the claim were now slightly different in Abbeys favour to the tune of about £200.

 

The judge ordered that my revised particulars of claim, particularised, to be submitted to the court and Abbey's solicitors within 7 days, and Abbey have to submit their defence within 21 days (ie. by 21st June)

 

I offered them to Abbey's Barrister who didn't want to take them, but that i should serve them on DLA Piper Rudnick (she didn't actually work for them) and i couldn't serve the courts copy as the court office was shut!

 

I also managed to get costs - just. Apparantly they should be served to the court and defence 24 hours beforehand.

 

So, the moral of my story so far is......

 

In general

 

Always list the particulars of your claim. If you are using Moneyclaim Online, i would mention that there is an Appendix being sent under seperate cover, and send it to the court and Abbey by Registered Post with your Claim Number.

 

With regards Set Aside Claims

 

In hindsight, bearing in mind that the majority of set aside hearings result in the judgement being set aside. Why not save yourself the hassle and agree to it. We all know that Abbey won't go to court to defend these claims, so it will only aid to help you expedite your settlement!

 

However, if you still want to do it then....

 

1. If you go to a set aside hearing, lodge your costs (lost wages, travel etc) with the court and defence at least 24 hours prior to your hearing.

 

2. Reply to the witness statement. Whizzkid and I (and probably others) have copies of our own which can be e-mailed to you to crib from if you so wish.

 

 

So, back to square one (virtually), only 3 weeks to wait until i receive Abbey's Defence, and then onto the 'Do you want 50% sir', 'No Thanks, 100% will do nicely', 'Oooo Suits your sir, have 100% then'!

 

And it turns out that my son has Tonsilitis! 3 hours in Casualty - and it's nothing like the telly either!!

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I think that covers everything I had written down.

 

I am bothered by the way in which Whizkid was excluded. I was under the impression that these hearings were in public.

 

I was also bothered by the way that the papers that were passed over today hadn't been circulated in advance. This hearing wasn't suddenly foisted on Abbey and it seemed like sneaky tactics to me.

 

Finally, I think you have a point about set asides which needs some thought. The system clearly favours the large company with a big legal fees budget. Today all they had to do was turn up with a big bundle of papers containing some pretty spurious arguments and they win. If a member of the public tries to get a judgement set aside they have a mountain to climb.

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Neil my apologies this whole thread just went under my radar like a stealth fighter bomber.

 

Very very interesting read.

 

I am a London boy, so in the unlikely event the set-aside actually results in a hearing again... I will be there.

 

Look forward to reading an update and settlement figures!

"BA Group. The World's favourite CA Group"

 

HSBC 2 claims amalgamated. £1195. settled in full prior to filing claim.

BARCLAYS settled in full 2 days prior to submission of defence by Barclays

CAP ONE settled in full on day 14 of LBA (£210)

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It does exactly what it says on the tin: the previous (default) judgment is set aside, in favour of a hearing to take place at a later date, in which the defendant wil have a chance to present their defence.

 

Is it a stalling tactic? You bet. More gravely, it is an abuse of the legal system, and the banks are getting increasingly good at it.

 

But let's not forget that on principle, set aside are a part of the judicial system that also work in the little people favour. For those in doubt, please have a search for the Disneyman thread on this site, and you'll understand why.

 

Neil, it must be devastating, but sadly, IMO, it was pretty certain they would get it. You probably have a good point in asking whether it's worth defending that part.

 

.

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I have been watching this case in great detail and admire your stamina. We will all strive to beat the banking industry and their unlawful practices and I truly believe that there will come a time when we have a critical mass of cases which will make the banks give up and pay the claims when they are received rather than delay and force it through the courts (which we all know costs them more, in terms of staff time, barrister costs and interest that would not otherwise be payable, than settling the claim from the outset). These banks are funding free banking for the richer end of society by stealing from the pockets of the people who worry about how to feed and clothe their family.

BEFORE starting your claim read through the FAQ's and if there's something you aren't sure of then ask.

If you win, donate to this site

Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions, some formed by personal experience and some from research. If in doubt seek qualified legal advice.

 

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I also think that the judge was wrong to exclude wizzkid. It obviously was enough space in the court room. What is most disturbing is that he was excluded on the basis of the objection by the bank the judge invited.

What was the objection? Did the bank give any reasons? Did the judge give any reasons when he made his decision to exclude?

I think that this is serious enough that some letters need to be written. I think that both of you should write letters to the Lord Chancellor's office and also to your members of Parliament. This is a very matter and should not be left to stand.

As far as set-aside is concerned, there is a presumption in favour of set-aside and it would be very unusual for the set-aside not to have been granted. However my own view is that it is always worth trying to resist it. If it happens often enough that the judges are more likely to understand what is happening. If you don't defend set-aside then it is simply handled by the court staff and the judge never finds out.

Although it is a lot of trouble, you have to keep the matter prominent.

By the way, the last moment service of documents was also a trick. However judges will almost always accept this kind of thing but normally they will at least criticise the party for it. Did the judge make any comment?

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I was under the impression that the SCC are open to the public, although it's rare for anyone else to be present.

 

Was Abbey's barrister the only person from thier side present?

 

If not why didn't the judge ask Neil if he objected to any of their side being present?

 

I agree that the matter should not be left to stand unchallenged.

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Regarding Whizz's exclusion, read this - rule 39.2. If the hearing was deemed to be private, then Seminole should also have been excluded. There may be a case for the set-aside hearing to be re-heard...

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Try this - it is a PDF on a government website...you want rule 39.2

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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It may or may not be relevant that there was someone else in the room- an elderly gentleman who sat at the back and took notes without being introduced.

 

The judge hearing the case was quite young (you know that you're getting really old when the policemen and the judges look young to you :D ). I think she may have been a trainee judge (if there is such a thing) and she was being monitored. It could be that she made a mistake.

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By the way, the last moment service of documents was also a trick. However judges will almost always accept this kind of thing but normally they will at least criticise the party for it. Did the judge make any comment?

You could tell she wasn't impressed. She asked Neil if he had read it and then took 10 minutes to go through it herself. Preumably it would be possible to ask for an adjournment in these circumstances although this would merely delay things further. Is there a way of forcing the bank to supply this information in advance?

 

 

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I'm certain that documents need to be served at least seven days in advance...will check my PP book...

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Oh Neil, what a day you had! Hope your son recovers soon, because he is obviously far more important than any amount of money or bank.

 

You held your nerve fantastically. I would have been a gibbering wreck unable to get my words out. I must admit I had missed your thread not being an Abbey customer (thank goodness). Keep up the good work. I hope that you are right in your assessment of how things will now proceed.

 

As for Whizzkid, if it is an open court, why on earth should members of the public have to give their name? You can understand witnesses not being able to attend trials, before giving evidence in the case they are a part of, but this is an entirely different case. Are you planning on going with Whizzkid tomorrow or do you think this might be considered inflammatory(sp?) behaviour and jeopardise your own case. At least he has some idea what to expect now.

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi Niel

Just read through your thread and have to say you have so much confidence and stamina to deal with this big bank. Im sure i would be a wreck, but possibly would have a go for a nice big earner.

 

I wait eager now for the future.

 

i hope your son recovers son, and you can take him on a nice holiday with your recovered monies.

 

Regarding the older man in teh back of the court room.

Once in a court hearing i sat at the back and a lady was writting, later she spoke and advised she was to become a judge but before that they have to spend a certain amount of hours in the court rooms observing. May be this could also be a reason.

 

Good luck in the ring next time round

 

Jules

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