Mr HelzPeanut Vs Moorcroft

[me_n_my_kids]

hi guys, please can i have some quite urgent advice?

 

moorcroft are dealing with an account for argos. i sent cca, they replied saying their is no agreement due to age of account (less then 3 yrs:confused: )

 

now this morning a letter has come from them entitled 'notice of intended litigation' saying they are planning on court action and detailing the costs involved to us if they are successful. they want reply by 12th march. please can someone help me with a reply? also there was a letter to argos sent last week asking who is dealing with account as we had a letter from cabot saying it was them, although verbally argos have told us moorcroft. im in a muddle and although im sure the situation is on my side, im unsure where to go from here.

 

id appreciate anything, thanks in advance,

 

helz :o

[rippedoffagain]

If they have failed to supply copy agreement, as requested, after 12 working days they are in default, and can not enforce. The fact that they have told you no agreement exists, means that they can never comply, and therefore can not enforce.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s78

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

[me_n_my_kids]

Thank you, is there any template for a letter back to them on here?

[rippedoffagain]

I don't think so.

 

Dear Moorcroft

 

As in your previous correspondence, you have stated that due to the age of the account, there is no agreement.

 

I would refer you to section 78 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

 

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

 

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

 

(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

 

(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

 

(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

 

 

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections (4) and (5) do not apply to a small agreement.

 

As no agreement exists, you may not take enforcement action.

 

P.S. I would recommend you read;http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/25668-curious-twist-two-cca.html

[Turnaround]

Rippedoff,

 

Thanks for picking this up and the advice given.

 

Helz,

 

PM sent, will follow up soon.

 

Turnaround

[Turnaround]

Helz,

 

Clear your messages.....!!!!

[ginnever]

I sent off for my copy of cca and received a letter from Moorcroft saying that they are asking Argos for a copy of the cca. That tells me that they don't have a copy at all.

 

They are also state that *(Extract of letter )it may be of assistance to all parties if we also take this opportunity to ensure that any potential areas of dispute are addressed prior to any possible court action or further investigation. Please could you give an indication of the information you will be providing when giving evidence to the court or providing information to the relevant statutory authorities in relation to the alleged subject matter of the account.

 

Please confirm whether for example when making a statement of truth in connection with your court proceedings you will be giving evidence as to whether or not yu did not receive the goods/credit ordered.

 

Please could you provide this information by return. We believe that this is a simple request that will assist in ensuring that all possible areas of dispute are identified as quickly as possible and potential costs and delays are kept to a minimum level.

 

What does all this mean and do I have to respond?

[rippedoffagain]

Waffle.

 

All you are asking for is a copy of the executed agreement, until they provide that, you should not correspond with them.

[me_n_my_kids]

thank you so much ripped off, i sent the letter recorded 1st class this morning.

 

thanks ta for the attempted pm im so sorry i let my inbox get so full, im keeping all messages so i can be clear in my head what im doing. my box is half empty now, deleted the very old ones

 

thanks so much both of you, feel better with a letter gone, it should get there by moorcrofts deadline also

[gavv8]

Speaking from bitter experience with argos/moorcroft i would try to keep things direct with argos as once moorcroft get involved the court action follows pretty soon afterwards.

Argos are not unreasonable but are prone to telling porkies about who owns or is dealing with what.

My advice would be, don't trust what argos say on the phone.. get everything in writing and DON'T trust moorcroft at all!

[gavv8]

If cabot do own the debt you will have had a letter stating this from argos, if not then it will be moorcroft who are collecting on behalf of argos .

I've been through exactly the same thing as you and i am still trying to get to the bottom of it 3 years later!!.

If argos will not accept payments then set up a reasonable and regular payment with moorcroft and they will leave you alone, but ignore them and things get sticky very quickly where this little group is concerned.

[me_n_my_kids]

oh jeez doesnt sound good.

 

well as i said i sent ripped off's letter today 1st class recorded, and also one that is VERY in depth that turnaround has sent me will be sent in the morning. im hoping they get them on monday morning, they will have no doubts where we stand regarding this stupid account!

 

a letter has been sent about 10 days or so ago to argos asking for who is dealing with account, there is no agreement so i think it only matters from a data protection point of view

[Seahorse]

If it DOES get to court, and they ask the same question again about goods received/ordered, Just simply state that this is not relevant, as you do not acknowledge any debt whatsoever unless and until they produce the agreement. DON'T let them get you to admit to ANYTHING, in writing or otherwise. Twisty twisters that they are.

[me_n_my_kids]

can i just ask, if it DOES go to court, do i appear in court? or is it all paperwork? is no cca compliance a good enough defence? sorry court totally panics me

[me_n_my_kids]

Just thought id start a new thread about my experiances with these [edited].

 

The debt is with argos. had been paying them for around a year when partner had to cut hours and could no longer pay as much.

Letter arrived saying debt is now with us, from moorcroft.

Had payment plan for around a year with moorcroft.

Then i found this site and sent a CCA to moorcroft.

Within days a letter from Cabot saying we now need to pay the debt to them, not moorcroft.

Rang Cabot, they say moorcroft own the debt.

Rang Argos, they say moorcroft own the debt.

CCA sent to Cabot in late Dec, no reply to date.

Letter sent to argos to confirm in writing who has this debt.

Letter from moorcroft... theres no agreement due to age of debt, please call now, debt on hold until march 5th. we ignored.

Letter again from moorcroft, notice of intended litigation. reply wanted by march 12th. letter sent recorded delivery on friday, then much more in depth letter sent today (sat 10th)

 

nothing yet from argos or cabot.

 

I'll keep posting back, Turnaround is helping with letters etc, but such a confusing situation!

[rippedoffagain]

can i just ask, if it DOES go to court, do i appear in court? or is it all paperwork? is no cca compliance a good enough defence? sorry court totally panics me

 

If you don't appear, your case will lose a lot of credibility

 

Don't get the wrong idea about court.

 

You are not on trial. It usually takes place in a nice relaxed atmosphere, the judge listens to arguments and reads documents, he/she then makes a decision. No black caps, no policemen. The judge is only there to act as a referee.

 

You can take a friend with you, or look at the buddy system on this site.

 

If you don't fight, you can't win.

[gavv8]

Hey.. Don't worry moorcroft are totally useless, make sure your paperwork is watertight and you'll probably end up having a good laugh at moorcrofts expense but bear in mind i have been through exactly the same as you are now and three years down the line.. no court..no answers..no worries:D

[PriorityOne]

There is a lot of talk about court on here. Personally, Moorcroft have not complied.... so don't pay them anything. CCA Cabot and if they don't comply either, have nothing more to do with them. In order to cover yourself against legal action, I would CCA Argos as well.

 

One way or the other, you will find out who owns the account.... or not. In which case, if no-one has the CCA, you don't pay anyone anything until someone can comply with your request ! It is a criminal offence to commence enforce payment action while an account remains in dispute.

 

They would be very silly to commence court action.... knowing that you would defend on the basis of non-compliance with a CCJ. It doens't stop them from issuing threats though.

 

[PriorityOne]

Hi Helz,

 

As advised on another thread, CCA them all.

 

If Moorcroft don't have it = no payments.

If Cabot don't have it = no payments.

That only leaves Argos.... the true creditor....to be able to comply.

 

 

[gemspan]

HI there

 

They cant take you to court because they dont have an agreement. No agreement - no debt!!!!

 

They have breached the CCA and they know it!!!! They are just trying to frighten you now.

 

I think I would be reporting this to Trading Standards and the FSA now. This will give you leverage if (and I dont think they will!) they take you to court. Also, these people need to be reported for underhanded behaviour.

 

Good luck

Annie

[gavv8]

Sorry, don't mean to scaremonger.

Argos are prone to being a little slippery and are not adverse to instructing more than one dca to collect on behalf of them so getting the correct info is paramount and sometimes quite difficult.

personally i seriously doubt if cabot own the debt and moorcroft will be collecting on behalf of argos, thats why i say deal with argos direct if you can and cut the dca's out until you absolutely have to deal with them.

[me_n_my_kids]

PriorityOne.... Argos told moorcorft there is no agreement, and i have that in writing.

 

Has anyone asked moorcroft before for their money back? obviously i have no intention of claiming back from argos, but i would like another kick in the teeth for moorcroft! Also..... my data has been passed around with no authorisation, and to cabot when they have nothing to do with the debt... anyone have any ideas on my next step here?

[Bailiffchaser]

Just thought id start a new thread about my experiances with these total a** h****.

 

The debt is with argos. had been paying them for around a year when partner had to cut hours and could no longer pay as much.

Letter arrived saying debt is now with us, from moorcroft.

Had payment plan for around a year with moorcroft.

Then i found this site and sent a CCA to moorcroft.

Within days a letter from Cabot saying we now need to pay the debt to them, not moorcroft.

Rang Cabot, they say moorcroft own the debt.

Rang Argos, they say moorcroft own the debt.

CCA sent to Cabot in late Dec, no reply to date.

Letter sent to argos to confirm in writing who has this debt.

Letter from moorcroft... theres no agreement due to age of debt, please call now, debt on hold until march 5th. we ignored.

Letter again from moorcroft, notice of intended litigation. reply wanted by march 12th. letter sent recorded delivery on friday, then much more in depth letter sent today (sat 10th)

 

nothing yet from argos or cabot.

 

I'll keep posting back, Turnaround is helping with letters etc, but such a confusing situation!

If nobody has responded with a copy of your cca then the agreement is unenforcable !!!!!!!!1 If they issue you can defend without a problem as they have to produce the original agreement. you could also probably get the money you have paid todate back as well !!!

[PriorityOne]

PriorityOne.... Argos told moorcorft there is no agreement, and i have that in writing.

 

 

Excellent !!

[sammyb]

ooooh! i sincerely hope your on a winner. goodluck. i really dont like moorcroft