Mbna - Properly Executed Agreements

[dpick]

Hi Cornucopia it's dpick again I have sent off my CCA to MBNA but as a side note a mate of mine is chasing MBNA through on of these no win no fee outfits and MBNA keep sending all correspondence to him (as if company he is with don't exist). So he copies every thing then sends on to the ambulance chasers. But to get back to the point he let me see his copy of agreement guess what application form again.

 

Cannot wait to see what they send me.

 

dpick:p

[dpick]

Hi all can you comment on this also in dpick and mbna and capitalone thread

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpick

Hi just checked MBNA account online and the twits have taken CCA 1GBP off my account balance will ring them today to remained them CCA is a legal request and not an option to remove 1GBP from my account.

 

GBP due to American keyboard setup on laptop and setup for wife to use that way.

 

dpick:razz:

 

Rang MBNA customer line got passed to arranged payments asked why my payment for CCA taken off my account balance was to because I Had sent to wrong address. Address used.

 

MBNA EUROPE BANK LTD

STANDFIELD HOUSE

CHESTER BUSINESS PART

CHESTER

CHESHIRE

CH4 9QQ

 

They then said I had to send letter to MBNA advocates office. I said I have sent to your head office address can you send on they say NO.

 

Is this just a delaying tactic or am I ok to just keep my timescale and wait for default and criminal offense etc.

 

Thanks dpick

[dpick]

Hi dpick

 

It's a delaying tactic / ignorance on the part of MBNA. You sent it to their registered office, which is correct. By law that's the address for all legal correspondence.

 

In future, address your letters to 'The Company Secretary' at that address and let him / her deal with it.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

Thanks Lantana thats what I thought have also sent email containing copy of original letter (oops left note on it to myself re deadline date) and details of phone call to customer advocates office after checking MBNA website. They cannot say they did not get it I tracked it to their server.

 

dpick:-x

[dpick]

Hi all referring back to MBNA having agreements on microfiche has anyone received a clear copy of their agreement, the copy they sent me was photocopy/screen dump on A4 but the actual image was on about 2/3 of the size of the A4 sheet and of course was not legible. The thing I am thinking about is can MBNA actually produce a clear copy of an agreement if required.

 

I must make it clear now that as a person who now lives in a council disabled persons bungalow and lives on pension and benefits I am out to give MBNA as much "you no what" as they have given me in the past. What can they do to me, they cannot put a charge on my home I don't own one and I am already paying my agreed maximum under debt management program and I don't have to answer the phone if I don't want to.

 

As I have said above I have received one of their copies of agreement that is not legible but even I can see no APR, no payment details, no credit limit and the terms and conditions sent with this were MBNA terms not the Bank of Scotland terms when I got original card before sellout to MBNA

 

Also got their usual response to SAR "We have not treated this as full subject access request etc" so am now preparing none compliance letters for CCA and SAR.

 

I would be happy for anyone to give me some ideas how to cause more problems for MBNA, who to report them to for CCA and SAR none compliance, I am prepared to go to small claims court over these and even if by some mischance a judge did say I had to pay their costs HOW I am on benefits I suppose I could pay another $1 a week.

 

And could someone in the no tell me just how clear these microfiche copies can be.

 

dpick:p

[dpick]

Sorry to sound dumb but is a credit card CCA request section 77

Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement

 

or 78

Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

or both

 

 

Hi its s78 but I just used "S77-78" in CCA request as a cover all, for both MBNA and Crapital one both sent their example of a credit agreement.

1,an unreadable copy of agreement from microfiche

2,a copy of my application form

 

but at least I got a reply from both now abaout to issue none compliance letters to both.

 

good luck dpick:-D

[dpick]

Hi Dave

 

This argument that a creditor may not profit from an unenforceable agreement and that this means you can claim back monies already paid is no more than a theory at the moment I'm afraid. It has not been tested in court and there is no relevant case law that specifically supports this assumption. That's not to say that such a claim would be unsuccessful - but who's going to go first?!

 

I certainly would not advise relying on this assumption as a way of reclaiming monies if a debtor had allowed a creditor to off-set the refund of any unlawful penalty charges against any future (unenforceable) liability of the debtor.

 

A debtor can still pay an unenforceable debt if he wants to and a creditor is perfectly entitled to keep any payments made voluntarily.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hi just doing a bit of brain picking the following is response I have received re my MBNA and Capital one CCA requests.

 

Cap1 sent me an my original application form

MBNA sent a very unclear copy of my original Bank of Scotland agreement

 

This is response I got from financial adviser:

 

With regards to MBNA and Capital One it appears that the agreements are unenforceable as they have been improperly executed. They do not contain the prescribed terms set out in the Consumer Credit Act namely, The agreements do not state the credit limit, the rate of interest, details of any power to vary the agreement or debtors repayment obligations. Although this is difficult to determine when referring to the MBNA agreement as it is impossible to read. I would advise that you write to both stating you believe the agreement is improperly executed, and as a consequence is irredeemably unenforceable (See Wilson v First County Trust CA).

If I force the issue of the agreement being "irredeemably unenforceable" would I still be able to claim back unlawful charges as these payments would not have been made voluntarily.The full truth being I want to give MBNA as much hassle as I possibly can after the way they have treated me and my better half.

dpick:D

[dpick]

MBNA put the phone down on me.

 

Recently sent letter to MBNA advising them that I have been advised that the copy of agreement I have received from them is irredeemably unenforceable, received letter and call today they are trying to enforce the agreement tut tut. Advised the caller about this agreement re some required terms missing and T/C etc sent should be those referenced in agreement IE original supplier BOS from 2000 not MBNA T/C from 2004 sent. She kept saying I must pay etc I kept saying unenforceable. When I quoted " Wilson v First County Trust CA" case she put the phone down on me.

 

Ain't it nice to have them put the phone down on us instead of us having to put it down on them

 

dpick:p

 

If the MIB from MBNA are reading this "&^%$&^)%#" you.

[dpick]

Hi I could be wrong here there will be more knowledgeable than me looking at this looks to me to be two sides application form and PART of the terms and conditions most people are getting a 4 page T&C from MBNA now if the T&C have £12 a default then they are from June 2006 onward.

 

all the best dpick:)

[dpick]

so is your view that this is an executed agreement or do all the terms and conditions need to be provided at the time of signature.

i think at this stage i need to do a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to see the full story.

 

thanks

 

Hi dpick again sorry I did not make this clear in my view this is an application (pre-contractual) not an agreement the prescribed terms could be on T&C but they must be supplied at same time as agreement and if supplied as part of CCA act 1974 must be those applicable at time of signing (how else could they say what you had singed up to)

 

I would do SAR for no other reason then to see what the twits have been upto but take advice from me on this make sure your SAR is a full SAR not just for transactions you will be surprised what comes out of the woodwork I know I was.

 

As before this is my opinion not law and others know far more than I

 

If you not sure of what to ask for in sar PM me and I will send you copy of mine.

all the best dpick:)

[dpick]

Just some thoughts after spending most of the evening going through this thread

 

since joining this site about a week ago I feel strangely empowered and feel I am getting control back

 

Last year MBNA made my life an absolute hell

 

fortunately as with most setbacks in life recovery is imminent and I hope the light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train

 

If MBNA send you a CCA with the T&C stating £12 per default does that not mean that we could immediately reclaim all the £13 excess payments they took since the agreement was signed, without prejudicing any subsequent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) claim (esp if the agreement is more than 6 years old)

 

MBNA's £12 T&C came into force June 2006 so if your agreement is prior to this date then MBNA have not complied with your CCA request as that requests all documents applicable at the time of inception of the agreement.

MBNA will ignore all letters apart from sending an acknowledgement they will not do anything to respond to your claim (apart from call if a complaint)

 

on the question of legibility I came across this on another site (it is specifically referring to SAR) but could it be applied to CCA?

 

If you store any of the older records on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form.

Have just had my PC go down so do not have the relavent docs to hand to quote but I do know that legible is one of the regs in CCA 1974 or copies of doc's regulations.

 

 

 

would be interested in your comments

 

 

all the best dpick:)