In need of major help, what do i do next?

[PriorityOne]

I think that whether they have complied or not may be irrelevant. The question you need to have answered is whether it's enforceable or not ?

 

It's true that you should have received terms & conditions, but I don't know if a judge would enforce on the basis of no t & c's (only) .... if you are able to scan up the main page of the "Agreement" though, then we can take a look.

[kennyparkroad]

Thats the image guys, sorry it took so long.

 

 

[kennyparkroad]

i dont see a right to cancel section, but that could be in the T&C's overleaf that they havent provided.

 

thoughts/suggestions would be more than welcome.

[kennyparkroad]

now whats interesting here, and i dont know if i could get them on any of these . but

 

1 - they have put my mum down as my spouse (eeew)

2 - they have put me as single

3 - they have put me as having 2 dependants (I HAVE NONE)

 

i dont know if any of these would matter, or if i could get off on a technicality?

 

or would it be seen as

 

"well you should have checked the information was right before you signed it!"

[conar686]

now whats interesting here, and i dont know if i could get them on any of these . but

 

1 - they have put my mum down as my spouse (eeew)

2 - they have put me as single

3 - they have put me as having 2 dependants (I HAVE NONE)

 

i dont know if any of these would matter, or if i could get off on a technicality?

 

or would it be seen as

 

"well you should have checked the information was right before you signed it!"

 

KPR, You should post the CA on Consumer Credit Act Agreements and ask them what they think

 

meanwhile chk this thread out Agreement Enforceability for more info

[Curlyben]

Kenny, it has the required terms, but the lack of T&C's and the incorrect information could be a kicker.

Now I'd ask Peter what he thinks as this is out of my league.

[kennyparkroad]

thanks, have PMed him to see what he thinks

 

Trading Standards have yet to answer my email about writing back to them for the FULL copy of the agreement.

[kennyparkroad]

also i can see no "right to cancel" section on the main page, if it isnt on the back page (the one i dont have) that would be good as thats one of the prescribed terms, correct?

[kennyparkroad]

ive had a message saying someone cant make out the figs

 

A - £5000

B - £625

D - £5625.00

E - £1229.88

F - £6854.88

 

 

i dont know why i signed the redundancy thing, i know i did it on the advice of the guy on the phone, i was young and now realise it was a sales pitch, there was no way i was going to every qualify for redundancy.

[Josie8]

Did you sign on the premises?

[Josie8]

ive had a message saying someone cant make out the figs

 

A - £5000

B - £625

D - £5625.00

E - £1229.88

F - £6854.88

 

 

i dont know why i signed the redundancy thing, i know i did it on the advice of the guy on the phone, i was young and now realise it was a sales pitch, there was no way i was going to every qualify for redundancy.

 

 

APR rate is 10.5% not 9.6%

[kennyparkroad]

so what does that mean for me?

 

are you sure they are not charging 9.6 on the actual loan and counting the redundancy charge seperate? (with no interest?)

 

and no i didnt sign on the premises, they sent the form out to me as an acceptance (thats why their date of signature is 2 days before mine) i signed it and returned it to them.

 

so they executed it with a signature and date before i did.

 

so back to the APR.

 

isnt the APR on the actual LOAN minus the £695 charge for the stupid redundancy payment i didnt need!

[kennyparkroad]

ps thanks for all your help, but im confused now

[Peterbard]

HI

I cant make this out very well so you will forgive me if i missed some of the figures.

I presume that this is the reply to a section 77 request if so,they should have sent you a copy of the T nd c's because it is mentioned in the text,if they havn't they are still in default (if they have gone over their 12 working day period for response.)

Also check if they have sent the other items requestd as per section 77.

 

This seems tho be a debtor creditor fixed term unrestricted use loan the prescribed terms for this type of loan are: The Amount of credit and the repayment details (amount and frequency).

 

I get the APR to be 10.53%. The leeway for error with APR is just .1% above the actual figures so they are well outsiide this.

As regards the signing of the agreement if you signed the agreement last then you executed it,so you should have had at the same time delivered a copy of the agreement usually a carbon.

If their was no prior face to face contact before you signed then their will be no cancellation rights.

As far as unenforceability as far as i can see the main issue is the APR whilst not a prescribed term it is well outside the accpted error for the term and makes the agreement improperly executed and therefore unenforceable except with the order of a court.

In addition to this the APR would have been a factor in your decision making process when appying for the loan and thus you were misslead into thinking you had a better deal than you got.

Section 127(1) of the act which allows the court to render unenforceable any agreement which prejudices the debtor in this way.

Althought the prescribed terms seem to be their the form of the agreement does not correspind to the format requuiresd by the regulations . This also makes the agreement enforceable only with a court order.

I would firstly get a copy of the missing info as per your request and then challenge them on the APR.

 

Best regards

Peter

[kennyparkroad]

Thanks Peter for your help and information.

 

I have asked Trading Standards to contact them again for the terms and conditions mentioned in the agreement (which i believe to actually be the back page)

 

once these come back ill have a better idea.

 

and the credit agreement states it was for a car.

 

 

 

They have sent me so far - a statement of account (with one charge for £25) and this front page of the agreement. thats all.

 

they have yet to send the default notice i asked for

[kennyparkroad]

also there was no prior face to face contact but there were prior telephone calls, im guessing that doesnt count for the cancellation rights?

[Peterbard]

Hi

I am presuming that this wasn't arranged by the dealer?

 

Regards

petr

[Peterbard]

Hi

No sorry telephone calls don't count.

 

Peter

[kennyparkroad]

no i put the purpose of the loan as car, but didnt actually use it on a car, and the AA could have cared less, they just put the money into my account.

 

ill wait for the T&C's, but with the APR being wrong, the fact they have my mother as my spouse, and have me as having 2 dependants when in fact i have none, would a judge make this enforceable?

[Peterbard]

HI

The details on the aplication regarding your personal circumstances would not be viewed as relevant as they were used in assesing your application not it's execution.

 

I have copied this for you from the OFT guide

1.20 What if an agreement is not properly executed?

S65(1) provides that an improperly-executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor on an order of the court only.

S127(1) provides that the court must dismiss an application for an enforcement order if it considers it just to do so, having regard to:

• prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and

• the powers conferred on the court by s127(2), s135 and s136 – see Q1.22.

So you can see that although the unenforceability of the agreement would not be automaticas in a 127(3) breach the court would consider the amount of prejudice (Harm ) the incorrect term would have had on your understanding of the finacncial implications of making the agreement.

If like many of us you depend on the APR being correct as an indicator of this you could say your were missled by the more attractive figure given.

The court has a number of powers virtue of the sections mentioned and could reduce the terem or total amount you pay or just say the agreement was unenforceable.

If it were me I would confront the creditor and express my indignation about being missled with the miossquotation of the APR and demand an explination, stating you are withholding payments as the agreement was improperly executed and they must get a court order if they wish to enforce.

 

Best

Regards

Peter

 

[kennyparkroad]

the problem is the outstanding balance is just over 5k, so i can see them going to court for that!

 

although in doing so, they wouldnt only have to explain the APR but also why it took them 9 months to get my my copy of the agreement!

 

but im still waiting on TS to get the Terms and conditions before doing anything else.

 

Once i get the Terms and Conditions, ill see what they say, and go from there.

 

Unless you think i should just contact them myself regarding the APR situation?

[kennyparkroad]

ok update

 

Trading Standards are saying they are "satisfied" with the document from the AA despite me asking for the terms and conditions,

 

here is their letter

 

 

 

Further to your email, and visit to our office, i am now satisfied that the Creditor has finally complied with your request under section 77 of the CCA.

 

I am advised that you have now recieved the statement of account and are in possession of the copy of the agreement that was sent to me (it was one sided, referred to Terms and COnditions overleaf which wasnt shown all i got was a 1 sided blank page!)

 

I understand that you were hoping that the agreement would contain the terms and conditions however "a true copy" is deemed to have been given if it contains all the prescribed information. The agreement does not have to contain any additional information such as terms and conditions (even if it makes mention of them in the agreement document?) In terms of the act "a true copy" does not need to be a complete copy of all paperwork from the original transaction.

 

I am aware that you still feel that the company have failed to discharge their obligation to you however i am satisfied that they have now acted within the bounds of current legislation, and i thank you for bringing the matter to us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have any ideas what i could put as a reply?

 

The main document refers to T&Cs overleaf that have NOT been supplied.

 

 

 

Any ideas?

 

thanks.

[Josie8]

ok update

 

Trading Standards are saying they are "satisfied" with the document from the AA despite me asking for the terms and conditions,

 

here is their letter

 

 

 

Further to your email, and visit to our office, i am now satisfied that the Creditor has finally complied with your request under section 77 of the CCA.

 

I am advised that you have now recieved the statement of account and are in possession of the copy of the agreement that was sent to me (it was one sided, referred to Terms and COnditions overleaf which wasnt shown all i got was a 1 sided blank page!)

 

I understand that you were hoping that the agreement would contain the terms and conditions however "a true copy" is deemed to have been given if it contains all the prescribed information. The agreement does not have to contain any additional information such as terms and conditions (even if it makes mention of them in the agreement document?) In terms of the act "a true copy" does not need to be a complete copy of all paperwork from the original transaction.

 

I am aware that you still feel that the company have failed to discharge their obligation to you however i am satisfied that they have now acted within the bounds of current legislation, and i thank you for bringing the matter to us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have any ideas what i could put as a reply?

 

The main document refers to T&Cs overleaf that have NOT been supplied.

 

 

 

Any ideas?

 

thanks.

 

 

Trading standards are correct in that they have complied with their duty under S.77-79 CCA. However for it to be an enforceable agreement they had to provide all documentation referred to within the agreement i'e' Terms & conditions etc. As they have not the agreement is improperly executed and can only be enforced by a court.

 

Write back and thank them for their true copy and point out that it is improperly executed and therefore unenforceable without court order.

[kennyparkroad]

thanks Josie, also if you read up a bit, they overcharged me in APR.

 

so what do i do now?

 

Just leave Trading Standards response and do nothing?

 

Wait for someone to contact me RE the debt? and then question the APR/Terms and conditions?

 

any help/advice appreciated.

[kennyparkroad]

bumping this up, surely i havent been abandoned, CB, PO? ANYONE!