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    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
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Posh's bloke v Nat West


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Just posting to say I am sending off a letter to Borehamwood today by recorded delivery which I have prepared for my bf. He has kept all his statements, so we were fortunate in that respect. He is claiming £4060.67 which includes contractual interest at 29.6%, and I have used Mindzai's fabulous spreadsheet to work that out for me!

 

I will update this post when we have received a response.

 

This is a brilliant site, there is so much to read, and so many positive stories, and I hope we will be one of those too. 'When' we win, I will make sure that my bf makes a donation.

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Hi Posh

 

Welcome to the forum:)

 

I wish you loads of luck with your claim, I fought and won against Natwest last Nov, got back over 4k. On your amount and with contractual interest, it is highly likely they will defend your claim, so do lots of reading up on the litigation stage of the process.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bf has received a letter from 'Ming' today although it was dated 15th February, offering him a full and final settlement of £953, which is his charges only without interest.

 

We are inclined to accept this as a partial settlement and pursue the remainder. However, we were due to send the LBA on Monday 26/2, so although I have spent several hours reading other threads this morning, I cannot see if we should give them another 7/14 days to settle in full, or whether we go for a combination of a partial settlement letter and an LBA or if there is another option?

 

Some guidance would be very much appreciated, if possible.

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I have read elsewhere that if you are offered a full refund it is advisable to accept as the courts will not be pleased with a claim disputing interest alone. This does seem unfair to me and means the banks etc give us no compensation - even the 8% would have been good. JMHO. It does make claiming contractual not so attractive dosn't it. I was looking forward to doing this with future claims. Hey ho, perhaps some will come along and say 'Sally, YOU ARE WRONG'.

 

 

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Hi

 

If you have claimed contractual from the outset then you can stick to your guns BUT be prepared to go all the way at least to AQ stage and possible even a prelim hearing. You would probably get them to agree charges and s69 at 8% now but that is your choice.

 

It seems to me that NW is offering charges or charges and s69 but fighting contractual and then giving in at the end!

 

There is a thread with a recent contractual victory so if you have gone for it from the outset don't worry.

 

Bicester1

Bicester1

 

MBNA WON £623

:)

GM Card Won £580

:)

Nat West CC Won £525.08

:)

Nat West Bank Won £2346.60:)

Lloyds PPI LBA

Barclaycard defence received. Trial date 30th July. Barclays missed deadline for servicing and filing of their bundle! Going to try for strikeout or summary disposal

HBOS about to issue N1

LLoys Bank LBA

 

I am not a lawyer. Get trained professional advice if unsure of your legal position. If my advice is helpful please tip my scales!

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Thank you - we are also of the opinion that there is further negotiating to do so are prepared to go all the way if necessary.

 

However, that aside, I still am not sure whether I combine the partial settlement acceptance with the LBA on Monday, when I would have been issuing the LBA if the offer letter hadn't arrived today, or whether I again ask for the full amount and give another 7/14 days for them to reconsider before sending the LBA.

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Hi

 

IMHO stick to your timetable. Acknowledge partial payment and send the LBA for the remaining amount.

 

Bicester1

Bicester1

 

MBNA WON £623

:)

GM Card Won £580

:)

Nat West CC Won £525.08

:)

Nat West Bank Won £2346.60:)

Lloyds PPI LBA

Barclaycard defence received. Trial date 30th July. Barclays missed deadline for servicing and filing of their bundle! Going to try for strikeout or summary disposal

HBOS about to issue N1

LLoys Bank LBA

 

I am not a lawyer. Get trained professional advice if unsure of your legal position. If my advice is helpful please tip my scales!

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Thank you, having thought about it overnight, those were my final thoughts too. However, it is great to get those thoughts reinforced. I will compile the letter today ready to send off tomorrow by Recorded Delivery.

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A slight change of tactic, as we have decided to try to negotiate a lower settlement at this point, so have compiled the following letter - would be grateful for any thoughts on this:

 

26 February 2007

Without Prejudice

Stuart Higley

Customer Relations

Nat West Bank

Ground Floor

National Westminster House

225 Shenley Road

Borehamwood

Hertfordshire

WD6 1TE

Dear Mr Higley

Request for repayment of charges

Account number: xxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 15 February which I received on 24 February. I am pleased that you have entered into negotiations regarding the repayment of the unfair charges and interest levied from account from the period 12/11/01 to 1/2/07.

I am aware that you have already settled very many of these claims in full and undefended, including contractual interest at your unauthorised overdraft rate of 29.6%. In order to settle this matter speedily and without the need for you to incur costs by instructing your solicitors to handle potential court proceedings, I am willing to accept a lesser settlement of £2805.98, as shown on the enclosed schedule of charges version 2, in full and final settlement of my claim and interest. This figure is based on your authorised overdraft rate of 17.8%.

I am sure you will agree that this would be a mutually acceptable settlement, without the need to protract matters unduly.

Please reply within 14 days unconditionally accepting my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall issue court proceedings to recover the full amount plus interest at 29.6% as per the original schedule of charges in my letter dated 8 February, however, I sincerely hope that this will not be necessary.

Yours sincerely

 

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Looks very good.

 

It has all the necessary points.You have shown that you are prepared to negotiate a settlement outside of the courts and it gives a basis for the amount you are requesting.

 

The only problem I can see is that as the letter is "without prejudice" you won't be able to rely on it in court should it get that far.

Advice given is either my experience or my opinion and is given without liability. If in doubt, consult a qualified professional.

If you PM me for advice I will only reply in your own thread

 

Never under estimate your ability. I won over £17,000!

For the full story - look here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/NatWest-bank/17630-thecobbettslayer-NatWest.html

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You could just insert an additional paragraph along the lines of

 

This offer is made without prejudice to my right to continue proceedings for the full amount of my original claim should you choose not to settle.

 

I believe that you could then carry on with your original claim and produce the letter in court but Natwest couldn't actually quote the amount you offered to accept.

Advice given is either my experience or my opinion and is given without liability. If in doubt, consult a qualified professional.

If you PM me for advice I will only reply in your own thread

 

Never under estimate your ability. I won over £17,000!

For the full story - look here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/NatWest-bank/17630-thecobbettslayer-NatWest.html

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Hi

 

Cobettslayer is right. I made mine without prejudice as I didn't want them to be able to use it against me, [suggesting to the court I was being greedy] if I went back to contractual, as I have done, since they tried to impose an agreement on me to accept all future charges, in return for refund of previous charges and s69 interest!

 

You can refer to the existence of previous negotiations in any statement of evidence. The judge may direct you to produce without prejudice letters.

 

Bicester1

Bicester1

 

MBNA WON £623

:)

GM Card Won £580

:)

Nat West CC Won £525.08

:)

Nat West Bank Won £2346.60:)

Lloyds PPI LBA

Barclaycard defence received. Trial date 30th July. Barclays missed deadline for servicing and filing of their bundle! Going to try for strikeout or summary disposal

HBOS about to issue N1

LLoys Bank LBA

 

I am not a lawyer. Get trained professional advice if unsure of your legal position. If my advice is helpful please tip my scales!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, no reply to the LBA and their 14 days elapsed on Monday 12/3 so have waited a little longer 'just in case'! However, we now need to file the MCOL, but I am unsure whether having claimed contractual interest from the start, if I also add S.69 to the claim also. I seem to recall reading some time ago, that we can claim either contractual or S.69 but not both.

 

Would someone please clarify, before I start completing the claim?

 

Thanks in advance!

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I seem to recall reading some time ago, that we can claim either contractual or S.69 but not both.

 

 

Correct but you can claim contractual and then s69 in the alternative (if the judge disallows contractual). also don't calim via MCVOL, you won't have anything like enough room for the required contractual POC's
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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to keep this thread updated. We took the N1 into our local court on 20th March and received the confirmation back today. The court sent it to the defendant on 26th March and it will be deemed to be served on 28th. The defendant has until 11th April to reply - fingers crossed they don't, as we haven't yet received a reply to our LBA.

 

Interestingly, as I approached the enquiries counter in the court, and said 'I have some papers', the woman said 'Is it a bank?' and I replied that it was. I then heard a colleague in the background saying 'Is it another one?'

 

Sounds like they have rather a lot! :)

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Reckon we're jamming up the system............. or could it be that the banks are jamming it up??!! Good luck with the claim!!! Hedgey xx;)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Have received a letter from Cobbetts today with a copy of their Acknowledgement of Service, stating they will be defending all of the claim. So, by my reckoning, if they have 28 days to file their defence from when the claim was served (28th March), then this takes us to 25th April.

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