Landlord withholding gas - help please

[bottomburp]

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[knoxvillain]

how much is 2000L of LPG?

[bottomburp]

Just short of £500.

[knoxvillain]

when you say you are responsible for the tank being 100% full when you leave, is this what your lease says? Is that what you have in writing?

[MrShed]

Could possibly be construed as harrassment and attempted unlawful eviction by the landlord. He needs to be very careful. I do not think it is legal to do as he is doing - the only slight complication is that he is effectively acting as the utility provider. If he got the gas company to cut off supply, then that is definitely illegal. However, I still think that what he is doing is dubious. Can you not source the LPG yourself from elsewhere?

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

Yes it is. Why not pay for that bit now and not leave it full at the end? Would that work?

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

The thing is, one you can argue in court, one you cant. You are using the fuel, so cannot really dispute paying for the fuel you have used(the 2000 litres he is currently billing you for). You absolutely can, however, refuse to pay to top the tank up at the end, and indeed there is no way I would be doing so. IMO however, you will have to pay for the gas currently used. He cannot refuse to supply the fuel due to rent arrears.

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

So, the tank was NOT 100% full when you moved in? How full was it? I cannot see this above. Ignore the fact that you "have to leave the tank 100% full" for now - it is completely unenforceable.

[Gatita]

I don't know if this will help, however if you have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement the property must be supplied with heating of some sort and nothing less than the original state of the property (ie if the inventory states heating by gas then the Landlord must honour that. For example, if a property had a gas boiler and it broke down, the landlord must have that repaired/replaced as soon as reasonably possible). There is no room for betterment (which means that if when you moved in there were little electric heaters, when they broke you can only have them replaced but can't expect the Landlord to put in a boiler, etc). Therefore firstly check to see that you have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement, and if you do the 'Statute' is in your favour and the fact that you are behind in rent is a civil matter not criminal, but it is criminal to withold something which is Statute.

 

You say that you moved in over 12 months ago now, if you haven't signed a new agreement and you originally had an AST, then it will authomatically go into a Statutory Periodic Agreement whereby the Landlord is bound by exactly the same terms, the only difference is that to leave the property you must give one months written notice and if he wants you to leave the property the LL must give you two months written notice from your rent payment date.

 

Hope this helps.

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

BB with respect, you have not answered my question.

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

Well yes, that would be correct. As you would then go on to use that gas. And in fact, you are then theoretically getting some gas free, as I repeat, you CANNOT be forced to top the tank up at the end. However, you can have no legal argument whatsoever about paying for the physical gas you have used. I do not state that this is neccessarily morally correct or right(certainly the LL intentions are not, it is clear what he is trying to do) but legally, you do not have a leg to stand on not paying the bill.

 

With regards to getita's point, breakdown is one thing, non supply of a utility is another - two very seperate points, and no relation to one another, so the statute quoted is irrelevant I'm afraid, although I can see the (flawed) reasoning behind it.

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

You have said it was full on moving in!!!! And PLEASE ignore the fact you have to leave it with a full tank, it is irrelevant(for the moment).

[bottomburp]

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[MrShed]

OK was the property tenanted prior to you moving in? As in, was it tenanted between 16/12/05-12/1/06?

[bottomburp]

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[Joa]

Mr Shed, what BB is trying to say, I think, but is too polite, is that the landlord has either lied about the gas tank being full or sloppy and did not check it properly. How can the tank be 100% one minute and needing topping up the next?

INHO; BB expected to move in and enjoy the full tank of LPG. That's what was agreed with the l/lord. He expected to to return this tank to full status upon departure. He expected to pay for current use. But it was not reasonable for him to be expecting to pay £480 few days into his tenancy for this utility. This suggests that the tank was NOT full, despite the agreement and that BB was expected to pay for this utility despite not even having a chance to consume it.

I would therefore consider l/lord's behaviour as harassment and would strongly warn him about possible consequences. I would get the local Tenancy Relation Officer (there should be a TRO in every council, some are great, some are crap, but doesn't cost to try) to mediate.

 

I hope I got the gist of the story right though. Apologies if i missed something.

[MrShed]

Joa, the initial topping up of the LPG was the £480. It was not topped up after his moving in. BB just because the tank was topped up a couple of weeks before moving in does not mean that the tank was not full when you did move in. Obviously if another tenant had been resident that would be the case, but it does not appear to be so.

[knoxvillain]

BB, you said 2000L was added, do you know what the capacity of the tank is?

 

I agree with MrShed 100%. Pay for the 2000L of LPG. Then when you leave don't fill it up. This gets your heating on now when you need it, then when you come to leave don't pay to fill it. he'll probably then try to withhold your deposit. Then you can take him in front of small claims court and demonstrate that he's attempting to overbill you for LPG.

 

He needs to decide which way he wants to work it, either he:

1. Fills it up to 100% at the beginning and expects you to leave it full when you leave, or

2. He lets you know how much LPG was in the tank when you moved in and asks you to leave it at that level when you leave.

 

Either of these would mean you just pay for what you've used however when he tries to impliment both he's overbilling you for LPG. But at the end of the day, it's the middle of winter, shouldn't your priority be getting your heating back on ASAP and then you can worry about the legals later?

 

A visit to CAB might not hurt either. They might even contact your LL on your behalf. Maybe your council can help if you tell them he's withholding your heating.

 

Is there any sort of metering or is usage purely measured by how much is topped up into it? Make sure you keep a record of every top up and a copy of every invoice incase at some point you need to go to court.

[bottomburp]

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