Refund offered- but with a twist!

[Marksgirlie]

After sending my lba to NatWest last weds, I recieved an offer today of £531 which is close enough to the original amount to be acceptable to me- only £40 off. However, this generous offer comes with a twist!

 

They will only refund this money straight back into my bank account, and that is currently with collections as I went over my overdraft limit (mainly thanks to charges!) and decided to let it go into default so I could pay everything off at my own pace. This has all been sorted out and arranged now, but they don't consider the acount closed. So not only will I never actually see this £531, it will be eaten up by interest!

 

I called customer relations but they are adamant that they cannot give me a cheque.Apparently I am 'mistaken' in my belief that many other NatWest customers have recieved cheques. So there you go, you bunch of fibbers!

 

The letter I got was signed by Stuart Higley, so I went round the back way to Andy Sinden's office, as they were very helpful when I applied for, and got, my first refund. They are going to call me back at some point, but no idea when.

 

So has this happened to anyone else, and what next? I will take it to court if i have to, but i would much rather just be given my $%^£&%^ money!

Edit: I am editing this as I posted in haste and didn't make my situation clear enough. First, i meant i don't want the money swallowed by the overdraft, not the interest- i am actually repaying the capital, although %90 of each payment does indeed go on interest.

Second, I have not tried to reclaim any of the charges that put the account into arrears, only the ones I paid in full prior to this happening. Hope this will make my apparently unreasonable position clearer, if not less unreasonable, lol.

[jaxads]

I suppose if you do go to court, at least you could then claim the interest and stipulate that you'd like payment in the form of a cheque!! I'm sure you can do that, although stand to be corrected. Good luck!!

[Marksgirlie]

I have just read in another thread that they are 'entitled' to use the money to reduce my debt to them. This seems dodgy to me- if they've taken this money unlawfully they are hardly in a position to dictate the terms of how it is refunded. But of course, I'm talking ethics here, not legality

[Rooster-UK]

Hi Marksgirlie.

 

The money you are claiming back is the penalty charges levied on your account.

You can only get these back if you've paid them. You haven't paid the penalty charges which is why the account is in arrears. If you had paid the charges to keep your account in the black, then you could claim them back, but you can't reclaim what you HAVEN'T paid.

What the bank is doing is using the refund to get rid of the overdraft.

 

If your overdraft is less than the repayment, then you will get the balance. If the overdraft is more than the repayment then at least you will have reduced you overdraft.

 

Many other Natwest customers HAVE received cheques but that is because the reclaimed charges came to more than their overdrafts.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[Rooster-UK]

I have just read in another thread that they are 'entitled' to use the money to reduce my debt to them. This seems dodgy to me- if they've taken this money unlawfully they are hardly in a position to dictate the terms of how it is refunded. But of course, I'm talking ethics here, not legality

 

What you are forgetting is that the bank hasn't actually taken any money off you. They have given you a debit balance on your account but youhave not physically paid them anything.

They have taken no money from you....they are giving you no money back.

 

All square!

[Marksgirlie]

Hi Rooster

 

No, these charges are ones that date up to six years back, they were all paid long ago at the time. I am not claiming back any of the charges that caused the account to fall into arrears at this time- I quite agree that they can't give them back if I never paid them! All the charges I am claiming are from before September of last year, which is when the problems started.

 

To clarify further, the main reason my account went into arrears, although triggered by charges, was the huge amounts of interest which ended up cancelling out any money I could put in.

 

Hope I've made myself a bit clearer- i only expect to get money I've already paid out.

[Marksgirlie]

Right, I am going to send the following letter to give them a chance to play fair (oh, my old-fashioned English beliefs ).

 

Dear Mr Higley,

Thank you for your letter dated 22/01/07 ref1229827283.

I am prepared to accept this offer if it is sent to me in the form of a cheque. As this money was certainly taken unlawfully, whether you agree with this interpretation or not, it would not be appropriate for it to be paid into my Natwest account, as I no longer have any faith in your institution.

As this money was originally taken in cash, out of our wages and benefit payments, it is only appropriate that it be returned in the closest possible form to this.

If you are unable to accept my terms, I will be obliged to proceed with my claim, in order to ensure that my money is paid directly to me and not simply re-absorbed into your system.

I anticipate your reply with 14 days.

 

If nothing else, it gives me 2 extra weeks to sort out the small claims fees and shows that I am not the one being unreasonable!

[kenny99]

Hi Marksgirlie

 

I was in the same boat as you. Had charges dating back, but since then my account was with a debt management company, as was my loan. I owed £5K on my loan, and £350 overdraft on my current account. I fought my corner. In the end Natwest closed my accounts down, stating that any money left in my account by the end of the month would belong to them to pay off my debt. But they sent me a cheque. They made the cheque payable to 'kenny99 into account number 12345678' which was my Natwest current account. They did this knowing that I would have to pay it into that account and they would be entitled to all of it.

 

I called up my new bank and they agreed to bank it. I didn't stop proceedings until the cheque had cleared, and it did clear straight into my other account! The fact that you have defaulted and repaying debt shouldn't affect your claim. They have applied those charges to you unlawfully...that's all that matters! Keep going, hope you get it sorted!

[petrafyde]

Right, I am going to send the following letter to give them a chance to play fair (oh, my old-fashioned English beliefs ).

 

Dear Mr Higley,

Thank you for your letter dated 22/01/07 ref1229827283.

I am prepared to accept this offer if it is sent to me in the form of a cheque. As this money was certainly taken unlawfully, whether you agree with this interpretation or not, it would not be appropriate for it to be paid into my NatWest account, as I no longer have any faith in your institution.

As this money was originally taken in cash, out of our wages and benefit payments, it is only appropriate that it be returned in the closest possible form to this.

If you are unable to accept my terms, I will be obliged to proceed with my claim, in order to ensure that my money is paid directly to me and not simply re-absorbed into your system.

I anticipate your reply with 14 days.

 

If nothing else, it gives me 2 extra weeks to sort out the small claims fees and shows that I am not the one being unreasonable!

 

Could I just pop my newbie head in (hope I'm not wrong lol) and mention they do issue cheques from what I've seen, however, with that same account number on it, not just your name! So basically you have no choice but to pay it into that acc. Good luck

[Marksgirlie]

I have had a cheque from them before, when I made a previous claim, and that had my name on. At the end of the day, i have made it clear to them that I require the money in my hand, as it were, and I am prepared to fight them on that until the end of the claim. I realise I might not be successful, but I'm certainly not going to make it easy for them. Essentially, this move is just spite- 'you might make us give your money back, but we're darned if you're going to actually get to enjoy any of it!'

 

Anyway, I spoke to Andy Sinden's PA, who spoke to Higley and he is supposed to be calling me back. i have sent the letter off too, so we'll just have to see what happens.

 

Thanks for your post kenny99, it gives me some hope It is the completely unethical behaviour that has me steamed.

 

Anyhow, as my husband pointed out- we are compromising by accepting a lower offer, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to compromise in return.

[ejt72]

Hi, got my offer letter today, but i am in the same boat as you,

do i need to sign acceptance slip still and send it back with a letter to say will only acept offer if they pay by cheque ??

Thank's Emma.

[Marksgirlie]

Someone with more knowledge will hopefully answer you, but it isn't something I would feel happy doing. Once they have a signature accepting the offer on their own official form, who knows what they'll do? Paranoid i know, but this latest turnaround is so fishy I'd rather be safe than sorry.

 

I initially contacted the 0845 number on the letter and just got a call centre employee telling me they couldn't, under any circumstances, do anything except pay it into the account. That's why I took the route I did - no point arguing with someone who has no authority to help anyway!

 

When (if) I get a call from Stuart Higley i will post the results here, though it may not be till monday now. If it's a negative, i will post when I get a reply to my letter, including any useful people and phone numbers I glean.

 

According to the offer letter we have 8 weeks to contact them, so no need to do anything rash

[ejt72]

Who s this Sinden guy ? would t be better for me to send a letter to somenoe other than Higley ?

[choco]

I have had a cheque from them before, when I made a previous claim, and that had my name on. At the end of the day, i have made it clear to them that I require the money in my hand, as it were, and I am prepared to fight them on that until the end of the claim. I realise I might not be successful, but I'm certainly not going to make it easy for them. Essentially, this move is just spite- 'you might make us give your money back, but we're darned if you're going to actually get to enjoy any of it!'

 

Anyway, I spoke to Andy Sinden's PA, who spoke to Higley and he is supposed to be calling me back. i have sent the letter off too, so we'll just have to see what happens.

 

Thanks for your post kenny99, it gives me some hope It is the completely unethical behaviour that has me steamed.

 

Anyhow, as my husband pointed out- we are compromising by accepting a lower offer, so it's not unreasonable to expect them to compromise in return.

 

Jeez i hope this doesnt happen to me - they're so out of order, anything to get the last laugh, well good luck anyway, keep us posted on what happens..

[Guest NATTIE]

If you sue than surely that will be brought to the courts attention that the amount was offered and you refused. It is a high risk strategy and one that I would agree with rooster's comment earlier.

[Marksgirlie]

I am accepting- just on my terms. As they are not offering me the entire amount at this stage anyway, I still have plenty of leeway.

 

Roosters comment was made on the assumption that the charges being refunded had never actually been paid, which was incorrect. This is all money that they have taken from me in the past and I would think I was entitled to have it refunded in whatever way I prefer. Hardly demanding gold ingots after all!

[Guest NATTIE]

not unless you are actually suing them

 

i will edit this one. It is your choice how you proceed but it does not make sense to pursue when a full settlement is offered, and the courts may not like it either. Your choice.

[Marksgirlie]

Sorry, i don't understand the last comment.

[gizmo111]

As I see it - you have choices

 

1. you can accept their offer in partail payment and they are likely to withdraw this offer and you go ahead and claim for full amount and pay court fees etc and wait a long time for the money which may well still be paid into your account, and in the meantime you will incur further interest charges on your debt to the bank - which will prob be more than £40

 

2. You accept this offer and your debt to the bank is decreased.

 

3. Agree to the money being paid to decrease debt but insist on extra £40 that you are claiming.

 

The bank has the right of offset and even if you go to court it is still likely that the money wll be paid straight off your debt, at the end of the day you owe the bank more than they owe you, and as expalined by rooster and nattie you haven't actually paid these charges so a debt reduction can only be a good thing.

 

Up to you

 

Best Wishes

[Marksgirlie]

As explained by me, yes I have paid these charges! I don't understand why people seem to think i haven't. My bank debt is utterly unrelated to any charges I am claiming. And as I am paying off the debt, albeit slowly, they can hardly justify their actions in my eyes. I am prepared to compromise by accepting a lower figure. They are niggling over just sending me a cheque. It's not me who is being unreasonable. And as they will have to repay the court fees as well as the extra £40 if i proceed, it simply makes it more unreasonable of them not to accept my wishes.

 

There are obviously two distinct points of view here and neither of us can understand the other. As far as I am concerned, I am prepared to fight this and if I lose so be it. It is purely a matter of principle for me I'm afraid. I must admit, i think we, as a group, should be very wary of this behaviour by the banks, who are obviously trying to hang onto our money in any way they can think of now they have been so comprehensively slated in public.

 

Anyway, i will keep posting as things develop. i do realise natty and gizmo that you may be right and i do appreciate all the points of view. btw, i have a guinea pig called gizmo, so we obviously have something in common:)

 

PS I've edited my first post to try and make my position clearer, as I made the mistake of posting while still angry and stressed.

[nwhessian]

QUOTE:: Second, I have not tried to reclaim any of the charges that put the account into arrears, only the ones I paid in full prior to this happening. Hope this will make my apparently unreasonable position clearer, if not less unreasonable, lol.

 

Do you plan to reclaim these charges once they have settled for the previous ones?

[Marksgirlie]

No, because I never paid them in the first place.

[pot-less]

I don't claim to know anything at all but......

could you not claim the charges that put the account into arrears too, that way those charges will be cancelled from your debt and you would then get your "paid" charges money back??

(or have I just confused myself??)

[Guest NATTIE]

Mark. I am still unclear so I will use an example and hope not to complicate things as well as ask a few questions. When you say collections do you mean Collections centre or Credit Management services?

The next question is on the charges bit. Are you claiming all charges over the last 6 years?

Are you claiming contractual interest or not?

I think what we have been saying is that say the charges took you to £540 overdrawn and that was offered even though it was paid back into the debt is cleared. Is that your situation?

Or if the debt you owe is £540 and £500 is being reduced by the settlement as well as interest. Is that the situation?

I am as confused as others by the insistence on the cheque bit because you are claiming for charges on your account that you are repaying bit by bit and yet you seem to have won but want to continue on because of the fact that before you have sued the bank they will not give you a cheque. Just so I am perfectly clear, the bank will not send a cheque if you accept the money before suing them. I hope that you can clarify a few of the points so that I can be clear what the situation is.

[Marksgirlie]

I am claiming for the last 6 years and not claiming interest because i don't trust my maths enough to calculate it. My overdraft is well over £540, which is why i don't want the money paid into it (it will make a very small dent and I really need the cash to be quite frank) but i'd prefer not to go any further into my affairs than that online- I hope everyone understands that. I didn't start this thread to ask for advice on my overall claim, just to find out whether anyone else was in my boat regarding refunds being paid into untouchable accounts and what, if anything, they did about. I actually claimed £500 of charges back last year, and got a cheque for that, so I know they can do it if they want. I will go and find the thread about that after posting this for reference.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/29218-marksgirlie-natwest.html?highlight=marksgirlie There ya go.

 

potless, you are quite right about getting the unpaid charges refunded but again that will not clear the account as I had a large (agreed) overdraft before everything went wrong. I will do it tho.

 

I sincerely apologise if my post seems at all snippy- I am highly unamused as Stuart promised, via the call centre lady, to call me back 'within the next hour' at 3PM today. No call, and now the call centre number is cutting off after one ring and giving a number unobtainable tone (it's 5.15 right now). Even if they've closed for the day, it's hardly the most professional way to announce the fact. Well, the letter mentioned above went off on friday, so I will stick to dealing with them via mail in future.