Itsme VS Welcome Finance

[maybelline]

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 03 Harassment

 

this appears to give some options but you probably have done them all, if so, keep a log of it and show it to the judge in court.

[itsmeandonlyme]

Well, i had stoped my payments, so shortly i will start receiving those calls as well:))))Have you received their AQ?

[tracyab1972]

Hi Maria

 

How are you?? How is your claim going??? I haven't been very well and started a new job so I haven't been online for a while.

 

Anyway, I am going to send a letter to Welcome regarding my agreement. Im going to ask them for a breakdown and query the 7 units. Can you remember if there is anything else I should ask???

 

I hope your claim against them is going well!!!

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello tracey,

 

the most important is to ask why they put an interest on acceptancy fee....its not a loan its an admin charge.

Your agreement seems properly executed and included all prescribed terms as per CCA1974. Did you cancel all those insurances?

 

 

xxx

[itsmeandonlyme]

Guys one more questions to all of you( apart from tracey- i have seen your agreement)...have you got the total figure on your agreement including interest (APR)????

 

Thank you

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Maria

[carinas]

- Welcome are watching!

[maybelline]

thats an intereting question, my feeling is 'who is taking it into court?' surely without the copy themselves they would be ill advised to walk into a court since without a copy it is uneforceable, lets assume you have found a copy in the attic? you want to demonstrate that their copy is a)useless b) unforceable, it is for them to prove the debt, not the other way round.

 

however, you may want to get some unfair fees refunded, do you have a copy of transactions using the Data Protection Act route might help.

 

another thought, I was sent a copy agreement by WF but IT IS unenforceable but does demonstrate how they have deliberately miscalculated the fees, and mis sold insurance and I am persuing them for this and have asked for copies of the insurance doc and t&c's they should have supplied (and did not) and have copied it all over to financial ombudsmana who have taken it on also.

 

the info you send to financial ombudsman is copied over to the creditor you are complaining about.

[carinas]

- Welcome are watching!

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hold on, guys.....if they do not have the agreement, judge can order them to refund you whole lot back.....including loan, PPI..charges...interest and outstanding balance........I am more than hundred percent sure they will settle before court....

Now, if they haven't supply you with the copy of the agreement they are in default and in month they will be commiting the offence...you might speak with OFT and get some advise..

[maybelline]

absolutely! the insurance I refer to is HLC, more lending over 75% of loan to value, totally inappropriate for the agreement amount etc I allegedly had! PPI was added without consent to HP agreement also!

 

you are right Itsme, since they have no agreement, it is uneforceable, but I understand the debt remains, I know there is much debate on this, I would like them to refund if that is the position, certainly the stuff they added on without my knowledge and the interest paid on it!

[carinas]

- Welcome are watching

[tracyab1972]

Hello tracey,

 

the most important is to ask why they put an interest on acceptancy fee....its not a loan its an admin charge.

Your agreement seems properly executed and included all prescribed terms as per CCA1974. Did you cancel all those insurances?

 

 

Hi Maria

 

I didn't cancel the insurances as I voluntary terminated the agreement with them. That was when I noticed it said "optional" and subsequently read on this site about mis-sold PPI. I am going to draft a letter to them tonight and send it tomorrow.

[maybelline]

Bad Credit Personal Loans - Secured & Unsecured

 

according to this they take their responsibilities to customers seriously and let you know the total cost of the borrowing???

[InKogneeToh]

Hold on, guys.....if they do not have the agreement, judge can order them to refund you whole lot back.....including loan, PPI..charges...interest and outstanding balance

 

Hi

 

An unenforceable agreement does not mean that you are entitled to a refund of all the monies paid. It is still a valid and lawful agreement - it just means that the creditor cannot force you to pay.

 

But if it is a DCA that now owns the debt, then IMO they cannot prove any contract between you and them without the original agreement and a deed of assignment, so in that situation there is an argument for claiming back what you have paid to them.

 

Regards, Pam

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hi

 

An unenforceable agreement does not mean that you are entitled to a refund of all the monies paid. It is still a valid and lawful agreement - it just means that the creditor cannot force you to pay.

 

But if it is a DCA that now owns the debt, then IMO they cannot prove any contract between you and them without the original agreement and a deed of assignment, so in that situation there is an argument for claiming back what you have paid to them.

 

Regards, Pam

 

 

Dear Pam, but carinas doesn't have a copy of agreement..WF admited in carinas case thay do not have it...if it gets to the court how can WF prove something without ectual agreement...????

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Maria

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Maria

 

I can't see any court accepting that there NEVER WAS a contract between carinas and the creditor. There will be details of the loan/credit card repayments and/or goods financed.

 

The court will not however be able to make an enforcement order because the creditor cannot PROVE what terms were agreed.

 

It's possible that there is an argument for the refund of any interest paid because of no proof of terms, but IMO the principle of the agreement, e.g. the loan/credit/goods supplied is not reclaimable.

 

I'd love to be proved wrong though!!

 

Regards, Pam

[maybelline]

many thanks InKogneeToh, I am attempting to reclaim the HLC which I understand is also called MIF or MIG, WF have state that they do not and never have made any such charges but they are all over others agreements on this site including mine?

[maybelline]

also, I cant quite understand this bit, if an agreement is not presented the terms cannot be enforced but the debt remains but if the agreement is present but not properly executed, how do these two scenarios differ, can we claim the mis sold fees, i.e. PPI and MIF added on before the interest and therefore paying interest on these arrangement fee etc but all we have paid to date is lost?

[carinas]

hi ITsme... i've recieved my AQ now, might need some help!

[itsmeandonlyme]

hi ITsme... i've recieved my AQ now, might need some help!

 

 

Evening carinas, any time:))))

[itsmeandonlyme]

also, I cant quite understand this bit, if an agreement is not presented the terms cannot be enforced but the debt remains but if the agreement is present but not properly executed, how do these two scenarios differ, can we claim the mis sold fees, i.e. PPI and MIF added on before the interest and therefore paying interest on these arrangement fee etc but all we have paid to date is lost?

 

 

 

Pam, correct me if i am wrong..............

Maybelline, if the agreement is not properly executed and present but has not all the prescribed terms.... than you should stop paying them... as it uninforceble and they can't inforce you to pay the debts...

 

Pam can you PLEASE clarify the PPI situation....(MIF)...

 

 

Regards,

xxxxx

[davefirewalker]

generally and usually the ppi is a seperate loan tacked onto the first, I suppose that first you have to look at the ppi loan terms.

 

but if the main loan is useless then it would probably follow that the ppi is also useless. I'm sorry but i'm just thinking aloud.

 

if the agreement is unenforceable then the ppi is also.

 

if the loan from the begining was no good and improperly executed then the ppi was invalid from the start.

 

But you have had the loan so moraly its your problem, but the ppi should be refunded.

 

I'm sure I will get shot down in flames here but thats the way it looks, (in a fair and even world)

 

Dave

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello you:)))How is it going?....It's a friendly thread....and your opinion is very very very valuable:)))we all need loads of help here....)) and Pam always correct us when we wrong...which i found very helpfull..i guess we all learning here all the time....

 

xxx

[maybelline]

hello all, thanks for all your help, I am just reading up some stuff I have printed off and the regs again. you are right Pam is knowledgeable but snowed under, understandably.

 

I have looked at how much I have paid and have definately paid the loan off but am now paying the insurance (MIG, MIF or HLC) whatever you call it it is the same thing, an insurance to cover them if my home get repossessed and their is insufficient equity in it for them to get theri loan, however, I am plenty of equity to cover their loan many times over , it is not standard and should never have been applied, only dodgy outfits do so and it was applied without my knowledge and is ALL before the total and interest. I am claiming back the insurance, it is very difficult when WF themselves do not appear to know what they are doing, do not understand the CCA regs or UTCCR or even whether an agreement is lawful or not, their letters contradict the previous letter, it is a minefield, my hopes lie now with the financial ombudsman who has copies of everything. I AM pursuing the unfair penalties for returned DD's etc in the small claims and 'dealing with' the insuarance matters also, I am more than happy to be guided by the courts.

[InKogneeToh]

hello all, thanks for all your help, I am just reading up some stuff I have printed off and the regs again. you are right Pam is knowledgeable but snowed under, understandably.

 

I have looked at how much I have paid and have definately paid the loan off but am now paying the insurance (MIG, MIF or HLC) whatever you call it it is the same thing, an insurance to cover them if my home get repossessed and their is insufficient equity in it for them to get theri loan, however, I am plenty of equity to cover their loan many times over , it is not standard and should never have been applied, only dodgy outfits do so and it was applied without my knowledge and is ALL before the total and interest. I am claiming back the insurance, it is very difficult when WF themselves do not appear to know what they are doing, do not understand the CCA regs or UTCCR or even whether an agreement is lawful or not, their letters contradict the previous letter, it is a minefield, my hopes lie now with the financial ombudsman who has copies of everything. I AM pursuing the unfair penalties for returned DD's etc in the small claims and 'dealing with' the insuarance matters also, I am more than happy to be guided by the courts.

 

Hi

 

Have you done a FULL SAR on this creditor. This should reveal any/all documents relating to the MIG and an account of any payments made in respect of it. IF you signed to accept this charge, there should be data on it!!

 

In a full SAR, you must ask for ALL data from ALL relevant filing systems within their control, that in any way relates to you as the data subject. What they SHOULD then send you is copies of absolutely everything connected with their relationship with you.

 

Regards, Pam