The Royal Mail and Recorded Delivery

[seylectric]

Well it's not just mahala, I sold over 1400 items on ebay last year, again including many small value items (£2-£5) and I also had around 10% of people claiming they had not arrived.

 

False claims? I don't know, but the items were often mobile phone sim cards (to put off those who tried to claim their money back having received the item) and buyers were warned that we would only replace, not refund, missing items and they were also told that the sim card would be blocked if reported missing. Goods were always well packed and a cert. of posting was always obtained but still the claims kept coming in.

[Ihatebanks]

I sell about 2500 items per year on Ebay I send them all by recorded delivery (as per paypals seller policy!!) just worked that out to £1700.00 phew!

Most do arrive within the week but I have a quite a few disappear I provide buyer with tracking numbers etc which are no good because they are only tracked once they have been signed for:evil:

This makes me out to be a liar I think there should be room for improvement

ie 1st scan once you hand over your parcel at least it would prove to the buyer that you had furfilled your obligation

 

Until recently RM did not offer copies of signatures online

 

Around Xmas time I had 7 packets "go missing" according to RM they had been delivered the customers disputed this,contacting RM they told me to send a cheque for £3.00 for each one to provide a copy signature WHAT A CHEEK

 

Until other companys can complete with RM on price for sub 2kg parcels it look like we will be stuck with them

[Movingon]

Well, I sent a complaint to Royal Mail's customer service centre recorded delivery... and guess what? No signature online, no tracking of delivery online... TO THEIR OWN OFFICES!!!

 

WTF is the point?!

[jonni2bad]

...WTF is the point?!

 

I honestly can't see one. As a seller on eBay the only reason I used it in the past was to enable online tracking at the least cost, but many of the items I sent were never updated online. If I now sell items below £32, I just offer alternatives and leave it up to the buyer - but will happily send 1st or 2nd class and if it 'goes missing' then use proof of postage to reclaim the value.

 

For personal items, I only ever use Special delivery if I want proof of delivery. I've never been let down by it.

[sean5302]

What truly annoys me is that they made several hundred million pounds profit last year.

The price of all their services went up, yet the services that most of us use, most of the time, are truly dire.

Bring on the open-market competition. asap.

[norvernrob]

What truly annoys me is that they made several hundred million pounds profit last year.

The price of all their services went up, yet the services that most of us use, most of the time, are truly dire.

Bring on the open-market competition. asap.

 

It will never be a level playing field, and here's why.

 

All the other companies can deliver where they choose, charge what they want, etc. Royal Mail has a universal service obligation - we have to deliver to every address in Britain. Do you really think the other companies will provide a full service when half of it will barely scrape a profit or loses money? There may be one rival postal service (probably TNT) that will deliver to a fair percentage of the country, however TNT has already indentified 'problem areas' that they will not deliver to.

 

The main mail business rivals will want is bulk town centre mailings, as that is where the profit is. I can't see how Royal Mail will make a profit when competitors are targeting these profitable parts and leaving RM as the only provider that HAS to deliver everywhere.

 

I for one would love to see another company providing a full service, because I am 100% certain they would not achieve a service better than Royal Mail, and I very much doubt they will take a letter from Southampton to Inverness in one day for 32p with a 90% plus success rate.

 

The perfect delivery company simply doesn't exist and never will, the same as in any other industry.

 

BTW just to ask a question, you moan about prices going up, do you think 32 pence to send a letter anywhere in the country with a next day success rate of over 90% is too expensive? Or £3.95 for fully tracked and insured guaranteed next day delivery? (if you think that is too expensive, use a cheaper courier company - oh there aren't any that are cheaper)

 

I've said it before but i've never had a problem with RM's service, and it's got nothing to do with working for them. You should see the state of some of the things we are supposed to deliver.

[sean5302]

My perception of Royal Mail is my reality.

To me, they are the worst provider of services that I have to use, bar none.

Truly, absolutely, abysmal.

 

I wouldn't mind paying extra for a recorded delivery service. Oh, I've done that anyway and where is my item? The RM haven't got a clue. So what have I paid the extra for?

 

All this baloney about paying 30-odd pence for Land's End to John'o'Groats? Couldn't care less.

Most mail travels locally, according to RM statistics. Look at London. Much of it travels 20 miles, maximum yet fails to arrive next day, next month or next year.

 

My postman must be dyslexic. I get letters not only for neighbours, but items for people who live miles away. When I ask why, it's just "thanks, I must have put it in the wrong part of my bag".

 

He got over £1,000 bonus a few months back. I asked him what he was going to spend it on. "Why not get your eyes done?", I asked him. He thought that was hilarious until a neighbour 2 doors away, brought unknown mail he'd delivered the day before. Should have been delivered miles away.

 

He's supposed to deliver junk mail, too. "Specially delivered by the RM" , it proudly proclaims.

You can see probably 500 such items, bound together with red rubber bands, where the postman has bunged them behind the bushes in the ginnel.

 

Bring on TNT, DHL etc. They wouldn't be here unless there was a gap in the market.

No gap, more a chasm.

[norvernrob]

So what you mean is, you have got a crap postman (Note that earlier in this thread I mentioned that some RM staff aren't the sharpest tools in the shed unfortunately, this frustrates me as much as you). Do you lodge complaints against him, which would sort the situation? (more than one complaint from a customer about misdelivery results in the postman having to take the mail for that address to the manager every day for checking) Because if you don't then you haven't got any reason to moan on here. Do you complain about the door to door items being left in a ginnel? That would result in a sacking if proven they are from his delivery. (some of the items have the delivery number and code on).

 

RM has been above 1st class delivery targets for some months now, with 94% of 1st class mail arriving the next day. That figure is official, not pulled out of the air.

 

If a signed for item doesn't show on the website as being delivered, then just claim compensation for it, whether you know if it was delivered or not. If RM can't supply a signature then you get free money.

 

All this baloney about paying 30-odd pence for Land's End to John'o'Groats? Couldn't care less.

Most mail travels locally, according to RM statistics. Look at London. Much of it travels 20 miles, maximum yet fails to arrive next day, next month or next year.

 

So you would be happy to pay £2 then to post a letter to the other side of the country? If not then don't give me the 'couldn't care less'. Yes most mail does travel locally. And local results are above the national 94%.

 

As for saying much of the mail fails to arrive, that is absolute crap. Ask Dave or Bankfodder about how letters to the bank that aren't signed for or registered mysteriously 'disappear'. It's the same with Ebay, people recieve parcels that have been sent standard delivery and immediately see the chance to get another one free by claiming they never arrived, when they have. I'm pretty certain there are people doing this constantly.

 

 

Here is a comparison now for you. From all the couriers that currently offer a guaranteed next day serviced RM's is the best by a mile, at a consistent 99%+. None of the other couriers hit 90%+, and RM is also cheaper.

 

I'm not going to argue all night, I know RM still has work to do. I can't defend some postmen or some RM management because they are crap and I know it. However the figures are there on RM's website, it is not a terrible service and I will say again - I really hope DHL or TNT get a contract to deliver to the whole country because people will then appreciate RM's service.

 

Lastly, if you recieve bad service or have a bad postman, COMPLAIN ABOUT IT, how can anything be sorted if no-one is told there's a problem with a specific delivery/postman?

 

We get as frustrated as anyone else but the constant bad press which people seem to believe without ever having encountered bad service themselves.

[sean5302]

I don't want to argue. I'm normally a perfectly reasonable person. I believe in paying my way and don't expect a penny more, or less, than I pay for.

 

Yes, I'd pay £2 a letter for it to get safely to its destination, if that was the price for Land's End to John'o'Groats. Equally, I'd expect to pay 4p if it was delivered over the road. The point is that I want a secure delivery. Why should I have to pay for "special delivery" to obtain that, please?

 

Things have gone missing both from and to me. I complained to the local delivery office. They didn't want to know. The manager there asked me how much I earn. Then he said his people earned one-fifth of that. He said the old phrase about only attracting monkeys with peanuts. Now there's a manager who appreciates his staff.

 

I complained to the Royal Mail by telephone. They said there might be fraud and investigation officers working at this delivery office, but would not confirm it. I asked them what else I could do, and was told "nothing".

 

I'm no spring chicken these days. I've used RM for 30-odd years and don't believe my postman is any better or worse than I've had before. I believe the management is dreadful. How do they know whether items are delivered or not? Most recipients are not expecting a letter, so if it doesn't arrive, they are unaware.

 

A postman was recently convicted of theft, at this delivery office here. He had 10,000 items of mail in his bedroom. Some opened and pilfered, most unopened as he couldn't be bothered delivering them. That should be easy to manage. All you'd need to do is put a dozen test packets in each postman's bag and see whether they arrived.

 

Delivering letters isn't rocket science is it? It's just not managed in my opinion.

 

Could you please tell me just what we are paying for, with recorded delivery? Why would I use that, rather than just getting a proof of posting, over the PO counter? I take your point about claiming £30 if the item is not recorded as being delivered. I don't want to cheat anyone and certainly would not claim fraudulently. But if something's not delivered and I have a proof of posting certificate am I any worse off than if I've paid effectively double the postage, just to get recorded delivery?

[norvernrob]

Sounds like the manager you spoke to is a complete edited Mine go straight to speak to any staff after a complaint. As for his wages comments, I earnt over £20k this past year for doing what is basically an unskilled job for 5-6 hours a day, and as you say it isn't rocket science. It requires a high work rate and good co-ordination to get 1000+ letters all sorted and ready for delivery, unfortunately some postmen aren't capable of either.

 

As you say most people aren't expecting items and most don't even complain when something goes missing, thats why when a rogue postie is caught they tend to have been doing it for a while. RM employs 180,000 people and by the law of averages they aren't all going to be honest. Police checks are made on every new applicant, I can't see what else can be done.

 

Congratulations on earning 100k a year btw, I wish I did.

 

Maybe a complaint about the manager is worth trying.

 

Test packets and letters are used as soon as people complain about items going missing.

 

Recorded delivery, as i've mentioned earlier in the thread is managed shoddily, personally I would just get proof of posting as you mentioned.

 

As for mail prices, well the regulator Postcomm sets the prices and decides how much RM can and cannot charge. A 4p local charge and a £2 end-to-end charge simply wouldn't be allowed. RM will be the only company bound by these constraints I believe.

 

And yes you should expect a letter sent normal post to arrive. As i've said, I must be lucky as in the 10 years i've worked for RM I have never had a single item i've sent go missing, nor has any of my family. In fact I haven't actually heard personally from anyone that has. I know it happens but I can't believe it's a bad as people make out, we can only go by our own experiences.

 

please dont use this word

[Movingon]

By saying "I can't believe it's as bad as people make out", though, you're denigrating the "personal experience" of everyone who doesn't share your extremely lucky break.

 

I complained to RM's Customer Services line about packets my Wife was sending going missing some 2 years ago. The local PO is still being run by the same people. Items are still going missing. NOTHING has been done. It was all I could do, to convince the buggers to reply to my letter.

 

 

Regarding recorded delivery, there MUST be a full service review of it, if attitudes to it are as you say. WTF is the point of advertising a service that, in the current climate, cannot be delivered? Also, you keep mentioning that you can claim back the financial value of an item which didn't arrive; however how is that any help when the item sent is a DPA letter? There IS NO financial value; it's an item you're trying to track for legal purposes; the PROOF of it's delivery is the thing you need, NOT the actual item's arrival; I lose nothing except time and effort if it doesn't arrive; however if it arrives and the recipient ignores it, without the proof my case has NO TEETH.

 

Bottom line, if the service can't be delivered, withdraw it and reduce the price of "Special Delivery" to reflect the increased uptake.

[mahala]

And yes you should expect a letter sent normal post to arrive. As i've said, I must be lucky as in the 10 years i've worked for RM I have never had a single item i've sent go missing, nor has any of my family. In fact I haven't actually heard personally from anyone that has. I know it happens but I can't believe it's a bad as people make out, we can only go by our own experiences.

 

And yet, when i had 5 out of 6 packets go missing (and as all that was in them was info, none fo the recipients was trying to pull a fast one) and I called RM to enquire and complain, I was told that since I hadn't got proof of posting I could hardly expect them to arrive. The person on the phone actually said to me that delivery simply could not be guaranteed unless I had proof of posting. Obviously, proof of posting doesn't guarantee delivery anyway, that's what the special services are for, but as has been said before, why do we have to pay extra to guarantee delivery?

 

Why were RM not concerned about 5 out of 6 packets going missing simply because I didn't have a piece of paper? I wasn't trying to claim any money back - I was concerned about the missing items.

[deemacperth]

I'm not Royal Mails biggest fan, but I'll give it it's due, it does things a hell of a lot better than anyone else.

 

Companies like bizpost and the like. I've seen myself sit in my house 2 days in a row waiting for a delivery and when phoned up to ask where the hell it was, they said the driver had been round and there was no-one in. TWICE. Bollocks, the driver was most probably late and cutting runs out.

 

What the hell was the point in complaining, I had to go there to pick it up.

 

I still think that the biggest factor in it is the cost of sending mail nationally. And no-one can beat RM there. Agreed, maybe they need to re-educate a few of their middle management, but don't forget, this used to be a nationalised service and if theres anything more lazy and set in their ways than a civil servant then I'll eat my hat and I say this from experience having worked as a consultant for 4 different brances of the civil service. These people get promoted for length of time in the job, not their skills.

[Jacksy1980]

Thought id reply to this because im a postman, so I can give insight into some things that happen, and to correct a few things.

All recorded items come with normal mail, the special delivery items all come seperatly and are put into a locker(room were these have to be signed out by the postman before delivery etc)

A psotman has no scanning machine that they have to scan barcodes with, the postman takes the barcodes, or the barcode number writes down on his signature sheet, and once delivery is attempted it is scanned back at the office. That dosnt mean it goes straight to a website, these are all taken recorded etc and like the website says a proof of signature can be shown in 72 hours.

 

Now a lot of people say things go missing, havnt been delivered etc.

Well speaking from experience I know i attempt to deliver all my items of mail. Somedays this cant be done, ie people not in to sign. SO a cards left and taken back to the office, then they have 3 weeks to come and collect it or arrange to get it re-delivered.

 

And speaking from experience every item ive sent via special or recorded has always shown up on the site, with a message telling me if the item was delivered, or delivery was attempted.

 

Now i also read someone saying that they had a damaged envelope that was in a plastic bag saying sorry.

Thats normal procedure, the amount of items sent in unsuitable packaging I get that are ripped or damaged is phenomanal, some is machine damage, but most of it is because the item inside isnt suitable for the packaging therefore it ripps easily. And when something like this is found it is put into a damaged item bag and reported just so it covers ones back.

 

Also another thing has anyone thought about that some items recorded or special not shown on the system may be down to the sender.

There are many items that have the incorrect address on, either wrong number, no number etc

I had one this week, no number on it, from abroad, i checked and couldnt match a name with an address. So a kill off sticker is placed on it and sent to another department who then sort through the millions of kill offs and send back to the sender(if the sender can be found) within a month.

 

Well theres some insight, I know this will probably give people ammo to have ago at me, because I work for Royal mail, but like Jack Dee says, if you dont like it, deliver it yourself with your 32p train ticket and see how far you get! haha

Cheers Peeps

[seylectric]

Well I have to admit I think the service is OK overall. I have bought a lot of stuff on ebay and the way some of it is packed it's a wonder it ever reaches the sorting office never mind my front door. The odd few items I haven't recieved I suspect is a result of the sellers actually lying about having sent it, judging from there usually dodgy replies and "not my problem" attitude to missing parcels.

 

I don't recall a recorded delivery item ever going missing that I sent, although I got quite a few "item not recieved" claims for small, cheap items that were sent by standard post. Again I suspect that most of these were people who had recieved there goods but claimed they hadn't. These incidents dropped dramatically when I introduced my own claim form which I insisted people must complete and return to me sao that I could claim from the Royal Mail, and then told them they would only be refunded when I was. In fact claims that goods had not arrived dropped from 15-20 a month to virtually nil, or at least claims were droppped when I insisted on the claim form being completed and insisted that no refunds would be issued until I got one.

 

Obviously people were "trying it on" which was exactly why I made it more difficult to claim a refund from me.

 

Just a couple of points though - I read a couple of months back that 14 MILLION items of mail were "lost" by the Royal Mail last year. Now I know that's only a tiny fraction of the total but it's still an awful lot of mail by anybody's standards. I also put in a claim for a missing item last year, they had put a card through the door but when I went to collect the item from the local office there was no trace of it. This has happened to me three times in three years, on the last two occasions I put in a formal complaint but never heard anymore about it and in each case I had no idea what the parcel was or who from.

[Jacksy1980]

Yes i have read all of it, if you want a better insight you could work for royal mail? Im sure youd do a great job! Like i said i knew writing that would leave me a target.

Well ive just finished work, was done by 1130am, so now im off to the pub! Cheerio hehe

[Jacksy1980]

Oh and seyelectri, Ive had that problem before.

Ive sent something standard parcel for someone on ebay, and a few weeks later after they say they got the item, they put in a claim with paypal saying they didnt recieve it. Because I didnt send it recorded or special I have to refund them becasue of no proof. SO its there word against mine. That was over a year ago, now i send all items reorded or special to cover my own back. And 100% feedback to date, so yes there lots of con artisits out there trying it on.

[norvernrob]

Yes i have read all of it, if you want a better insight you could work for royal mail? Im sure youd do a great job! Like i said i knew writing that would leave me a target.

Well ive just finished work, was done by 1130am, so now im off to the pub! Cheerio hehe

 

 

I'm a postie as well and have already said just about the same as you have earlier in the thread.

 

For everyone's info, RM is about to publish it's best ever set of performance figures. 94.1% of 1st class mail delivered the next day, 98.9% of 2nd class delivered within 3 days. 13 out of 15 targets exceeded. (these targets are set by postcomm NOT RM and RM is fined if they aren't met) These targets or penalties wont apply to any other company.

 

81 million items a day processed with a target failure rate of less than 2%.

 

Yes RM had a rough time a couple of years ago when it was losing £1million a day, but there has been massive change within the company with the switch to a single delivery, a lot of casual and agency staff were used during these changes. Efficiency and results have increased year on year since then.

 

You can't keep everyone happy, some people somewhere get a poor service no matter how good the company. Deemacperth talks about an alternative courier being crap, how many people who can't wait for an alternative to RM actually use these couriers now?

 

I'll say it one last time, I know for a fact that no other company delivering to the whole of the country will do any better than RM.

 

The best guaranteed next day delivery service from any courier NOW doesn't get the same percentage of items there the next day as RM's standard first class service does.

 

14 million items lost (which is the worst ever by far, and it wasn't last year, those figures that RM received the £11m fine for are from 3 years ago) is 0.005% of the total items posted. Still too many I know, but as i've said that figure includes theft from mailvans, mailboxes, fraud by customers etc etc.

 

This is my last post as there's not much point trying to explain to people that keeping quoting the same couple of incidents over and over. The figures I have posted are FACTS. Yes some people are going to have bad luck, well tough it happens with ANY service the whole world over.

[mahala]

well tough

 

which is, in general, the attitude of RM when you complain about items going missing or recorded items not being available on the track and trace system,

[sean5302]

I'm getting fed up with reading about it costing 32p to send a letter anywhere in the country.

This is a business that made £537 million profit out of us last year. It gave its workers £1,074 each, as a bonus.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4553933.stm

 

They make profits because they charge us more than it costs them, simple as that.

 

Personally, I'd pay (more) for a good service. In view of the profits, why do I need to pay more?

 

To the Postal workers here, I'd say remember the postings of the rest of us. The customer is king. You keep providing something that we don't want and the time will come when we'll be able to go elsewhere.

 

Just look at the comment from Adam Crozier, CEO. "Only 16 million letters went missing last year", down from 28 million. Well done Adam, 16 million's not so bad, is it? Enjoy your £2 million bonus, old chap.

[Jacksy1980]

Well by all means use another courier, theres nobody stopping you.

If Royal Mail bugs you that much nobody is telling you to use it!

 

And as the previous postie said, read the stats and stop repeating the little incidents. If you want a 100% service, good luck finding one better then Royal Mail, why dont you start your own, show Royal Mail how it should be done.

And as for the bonus I worked damn hard to earn that bonus, which was set after 3 years of profit not 1 year.

Were on target once again for another bonus of around £600 and I cant wait, cos like the previous bonus I and many other posties have earned it, despite what a small majority think.

 

Just out of curiousity do you work for a business thats service is 100%, mistake free, and has had no complaints? Tell me a business that is and il show you a liar.

 

That bonus, plus the charges I am fighting, hopefully it should be a brilliant long summer!

Thankyou Jack

[Jacksy1980]

 

They make profits because they charge us more than it costs them, simple as that.

 

 

Congratulations your on the 1st step towards being a succesful business man:D

[sean5302]

Well by all means use another courier, theres nobody stopping you.

If Royal Mail bugs you that much nobody is telling you to use it!

 

Until the local delivery monopoly is de-regulated there isn't an alternative

 

And as the previous postie said, read the stats and stop repeating the little incidents.

 

These might be losing 16 million letters last year?

 

If you want a 100% service, good luck finding one better then Royal Mail, why dont you start your own, show Royal Mail how it should be done.

And as for the bonus I worked damn hard to earn that bonus, which was set after 3 years of profit not 1 year.

Were on target once again for another bonus of around £600 and I cant wait, cos like the previous bonus I and many other posties have earned it, despite what a small majority think.

 

I think you'll find I'm in the majority ie large and you're in the minority, ie small

 

Just out of curiousity do you work for a business thats service is 100%, mistake free, and has had no complaints? Tell me a business that is and il show you a liar.

 

My colleague runs the HJ Heinz UK food business. How many customers can he kill with food poisoning?

Parachute packers. What's an acceptable failure rate?

Heart surgeons

etc etc. All liars, presumably?

 

That bonus, plus the charges I am fighting, hopefully it should be a brilliant long summer!

Thankyou Jack

 

If you are truly happy with the Royal Mail performance, who am I to tell you differently? Just a customer, what do I know?

[alanfromderby]

This thread has now degenerated into silliness, and far from the original point - it is therefore closed.