Fireman 1963 baliffs demand fees whilst parent out from the kids help please

[djweeble]

Thanks Demon X Slash.

 

I had a feeling I'd be in hot water for that post I stand by a lot of what I wrote originally, though I suppose part of it was against forum rules.

 

HOWEVER, the law does allow you to defend your property and family from danger, and if Drakes thugs refused to provide ID, you have no way of knowing that they really are who they claim to be. You would then be perfectly entitled to take action to remove them from your premises, forcibly if neccessary. If they become violent in the process you are allowed to retaliate yourself, in order to overpower and subdue them.

 

I do not advise anyone to use violence uneccessarily, however, if I found someone in my house claiming to be a bailliff and they refused to provide ID, they would not be in there long, I would remove them by whatever means it took.

 

Likewise Fireman, keep us informed, I too want to see these thugs suffer, intensely suffer.

[djweeble]

Just out of interest; Fireman, you said in your initial post that the kids were still in their pyjamas, that to me means it was quite early in the morning.

 

I found this in the Wikipedia sticky at the top of the forum.

 

Any warrant to a bailiff to give possession of a tenement justifies him in entering upon the premises named in the warrant, and giving possession, provided the entry be made between the hours of 9 A.M. and 4 P.M.

 

Does anyone know if these times apply to any entry, or is it just for possession ??

[demon_x_slash]

Are you for real, tevion, or are you just a figment of my overstretched imagination? It was a long night last night.

[djweeble]

Woah ! way out of line !! Tevion

[agr]

To enter a property and intimidate minors is an absolute no-no. As a now lapsed cert bailiff, it was something you never did. Leave a letter to say you had visited, or if they were going to be out for only a short time, wait. They cannot either swan up and randomly charge you a huge sum of money as stated. There is a scale of charges for leaving letters, and a fee for an enforcing bailiff. Why they sent an enforcing team when they could have sent a levy bailiff just smacks of trying to intimidate and screw as much money as possible. Did they sent previous letters or a levy bailiff and you ignored them? You have the right to look at the court certificate they carry (not to take it, but look at it) and record the details, if you believe they have acted outside the law you can make a complaint to the court issuing the certificate. If this is upheld the bailiff in question may lose their certificate. The laws regarding legal entry are very specific. It is quite a few years since I was involved in the industry, but I do believe for parking fines you had to be certificated, and I'm certain as an enforcer as opposed to a levy bailiff (for everyrthing except council tax) you have to hold a court cert. I am sorry to say there are some absolute thugs out there, and as they are commission based, they will use every advantage to gain entry. As regards a previous post stating entry times, it varies on what type of work you are doing ie comercial rents is sunrise to sunset. If you arrive after sunset, you have to ASK if you can levy goods, even if you have gained access. The law changes frequently on distress, but I remember some of the enforcing teams for the company I worked for were out at 6am. Also by law you have to show your certificate when required, and bear this in mind, you cannot state you are FROM any specific company or council that is named on the warrant, you have to give the name of your employer and that you are here ON BEHALF of the company, council named on the warrant executing a warrant issued by such and such county court. This wording is paramount as you cannot mislead people into believing you are an employee direct of the company,council named on the warrant. Therefore the correct procedure of a certificated bailiff is 'goodmorning, I am a county court cert bailiff from whatever bailiff company here to execute a warrant issued by such and such county court ON BEHALF of such and such company/council for non payment of whatever, may I come in?'.

Any request for showing your authorisation HAS BY LAW to be honoured. If the door gets slammed in your face, thats it. If a kid answers the door you do not ever effect entry, if they leave it open to get a parent or other adult you can put your foot in thereby gaining legal entry, but not just walk in and start listing goods. (well you can legally, but leave yourself wide open to justifiable complaint). I am here speaking as a levy bailiff who is the first person normally to knock on your door. If you let them in and they do levy walking possession and you dont make an arrangement with the bailiff company or whoever, then the enforcer who comes next can force legal entry to remove goods. If you do get a bailiff at your door for the first time ensure the above points are noted, and dont let them in. Get on the phone to whoever you owe and try and sort it out with them.

[fireman1963]

I sent a letter asking for a breakdown of the charges by the bailiffs and gave them 14 days to reply, the time runs out on Monday. What should my next step be if they don't reply by Monday?

[agr]

When you paid your money you should have been given a receipt stating the charges including letters left, visits by levy and enforcing bailiffs. It is a specific form, but for the life of me I cannot remember what its called, but oyur charges HAVE to be clearly stated, that as far as I am aware, is the law. There is also something (or used to be) called a debt ledger which has your charges listed on it, we did not let debtors have it, but were able to tell them immediately exactly what they owed and why.

If your reply to a charges breakdown does not arrive, have your debt reference number which should be on the payment receipt, ring the bailiff company, back it up with a letter, contact whoever they were executing the warrant for, backed up in writing, and also write to the county court who issued the warrant expressing your concerns. I hope someone more up to date on this type of procedure can really be of more help. One of the reasons I left the industry was because I could not justify with myself some of the less than honest tactics being employed to ease people of their cash - bottom line - I am too ethical to be an overwhelming success at the job. The very best of luck!!

[fireman1963]

It is refreshing to know that not all bailiffs are thugs and do have morals, we have already done the letters you mentioned to all the parties and asked for replies within 14 days which have not been done. Where do we go now, do we write more letters to those mentioned again? ideally I want to now go further but who do I go to now having got no replies within the specified time I gave.

Can I now demand my money back from the bailiff company Drakes as they have failed to supply the information requested?

As for them sending letters or making previous calls this never happened although I believe they are well known for making bogus calls just to bump up their charges. The receipt that was left did not specify any itemised charges, just the total even when I asked for a breakdown it was not given.

What do I do next?

[djweeble]

You say you wrote to them for a breakdown of the charges, was it an SAR ?

 

If not, that is your next step, make sure you send it by recorded delivery.

[roughjustice]

I had a recent encounter with bailiff re a parking ticket also (although it was by post/phone and no visit).

 

I may be missing something here but when I checked the charges they had applied (£300) I found that Section 78 of the road traffic act 1991 clearly 'caps' bailiffs charges at £10 for letter or phone call making initial contact and £20 for a home visit. This applies ONLY to PCN (Penalty Charge Notices, parking ticket) enforcement.

 

Am I mistaken..(anyone?)..if not then clearly this is a good place to start once they have responded to your S.A.R stating what they actually have charged. My understanding is that they commit an offence by charging more. Certainly 'EQUITA' accepted £10 from me and p***ed off!

[whirlybird]

Hi Everyone,

Re posts on Drakes bailiffs.In 2005,having a hellish year with debts, my mum rang me at work to say a bailiff from Drakes had been to her house threatening to take her goods in order to settle an outstanding parking ticket in my name.Duly told to go away, he then contacted me making threats to report me to the police for registering car at my mums(had only just moved out).Having no money and getting a bit hysterical as I was already being chased by 2 other bailiffs, made it clear I could not pay there and then.To my surprise he then changed tack and offered to help me by giving me 6 wks (in order to pay council tax bailiff off first). Being naive and grateful at this point, I duly phoned back in 6 wks and made offer of payment over the phone using debit card.To my surprise he said he would call me back to take details as he was busy.No call back.Several txt msgs later (menacing in nature)he rang demanding money again.Once again I was at work and offered to pay over the phone.Yet again "he was busy and would call back". This is the last Ive heard from him.

Any thoughts would be appreciated as I now live in fear they will turn up out of the blue with further demands.

Cheers and good luck to Fireman

[fireman1963]

I have just received a reply from Drakes and post their reply:

 

I write further to letter of the 15th January 2007, (this was to say they got our letter of complaintand would be looking into it), having concluded our review of your complaint.

As you are aware ths matter relates to the lawful enforcement of a warrant of Execution issued pursuant to statutory authority under Road Traffic Act 1991 by Basildon District Council in respect of an outstanding penalty charge.

Our officer was instructed to enforce the warrant, as the charge remained unpaid despite reminders issued by both the Council and this office on the 14th September 2006.

Our database shows an attendance was made at your property on the 8th and the 9th January 2007, no contact was made so a letter was left. (This is a complete fabrication).

It is our current understanding that the statutory notices in these matters - including the Order for Recovery authorised by the Taffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) at Northampton County Court - were sent to you by Basildon Council at the address provided by the DVLA. You would have been aware therefore that the Council considered the debt to remain due and of your statutory rights in regard to Representations (i.e. challenges directly to the Council), Appeals to the independent adjudicators and Statutory Declarations (in respect of non receipt of statutory notices)to TEC.

I can confirm that both officers are certificated and the relevent CRB checks have been made. All our officers have to complete the training programme in line with our company's policies.

Due to the serious nature of your complaint i have obtained a report from the officers involved who state as follows:-

> On attendance at your property on the 10th January 2007, the door was opened by a young lady, they showed their identification and advised they were in possession of a warrant, they asked to speak to you.

> The young lady invited them inside, once inside she said the debtor was her mother nd she would contact you by phone as you had already left for work. Whilst speaking with you on the phone you informed our officers that your children were home alone, and you were unable to pay, but would contact your brother-in-law who could attend the property.

> The officers state that they left the property and waited in the van for your brother-in-law to arrive. They deny waiting in the house.

> I understand that when your brother-in-law arrived they showed their identification and as much detail as possible on the warrant. (those of you that have read my previous posts would know this is total bull****).

In regard to the fees you have incured. These charges have been calculated in accordance with the authority of the Recovery of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993 [1993/2072 (L17)] (as amended 2003). The breakdown is as foolows:-

 

Penalty Charge £95.00

Letter Fee £11.20

Levy charge £116.52

Attendance to Remove £90.00

Van Fee £90.00

VAT £53.85

Total £456.57

 

 

In conclusion: No attempt was made to address your liabilities at an earlier stage. nor did you contact our clients at the Council to advise them of your situation, therefore a warrant was issued.

 

Warrants are issued to us for immediate enforcementand it is understood that the nature of our business can cause uncertainty inconvenience and distress. It is also understood that charges and costs associated with distraint may be substantial.

 

By virtue of the power under the particular warrant an officer can attend the warrant address and peacefully enter the property.

 

I have found no evidence that our officer's have behaved improperly in this instance, however, I fully accept that that is not your perception and therefore I have reminded the officers involved that discretion must be used when encountering family members who although they may not appear to be, are in fact minors.

 

Yours sincerrely

 

Gill Abbott

Customer Care Coordinator.

 

 

This is a complete load of rubbish and by their own admission know they got it wrong and now they are trying to cover it up hoping we will go away. Well they have got that wrong too, please help me nail these b*stards.

[djweeble]

The way I've always understood it is.....

 

When the "young lady" answered the door, their first question should have been......

 

Are your parents at home ?

or,

Is there an adult on the premisses ?

 

If the answer is "no", they should have left immediately. They can leave a message to be passed on, but they are not allowed to enter the premisses under any circumstances when there are only children in the house.

[Bailiffchaser]

Issue a small claim for the whole amount and also you muct log a complaint with the court issuing the certificate.

[fireman1963]

when you say issuea claim, on what grounds would i have? also would the court be the TEC at Northampton?

[Bailiffchaser]

claim through your local court or money claim on line @ Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home

find out where the bailiff was certificated and then complain to that court. as the watchdog.

[Guest MizzPiggy]

Dear Fireman1963,

 

The correct forum for all this is to make the complaint direct to the court where they are certificated. Due to the complaint, I assure you a circuit judge will not let the matter go untill it is investigated and you have every right to follow this process.

 

In a previous link I did add the link for the complaints form.

 

Please give me a call if you have any questions and I will gladly go through the entire process and explain why this is the way to begin the complaint and get it heard.

 

You have contacted Drakes and you have given them an opportunity to reply, however I can assure you letters are standard at best!

 

Some Circuit Judges are very good and will hear the matter and in a case like yours, we had one Bailiff that did in fact lose a portion of his bond, so this is genuinly the first thing to do. After that, looking into compensation at a civil level is the next step.

 

Alison

[fireman1963]

Alison

Thanks for your reply i have contacted the HMCS find out where their certs were issued, they were very helpful and asked for a copy of the reply letter as they are going to write to Drakes to get the correct names of the two bailiffs. Once we have that i will write to the court, i am certain that the fee amount to totally unrealistic too but i am not sure were to find out what the charges should be, this was a first visit and no letters were received so how they worked out the invoice is beyond me!

[fireman1963]

I have just got a letter back from drakes in response to a letter I sent. They have basically said that they have followed all the right processes including fees and their investigation they have also included a copy letter they say was sent in Sept. 2006. They also say they left letters on the two previous days when they allegedly visited and enterd this into a hand held computer however they are hand written letters and no copies are kept.

However they also state in their letter that both bailiffs are certificated at Shoreditch County Court, I spoke to Denise Falconer from the HMCS today to clarify this and she again tells me Mr M. is not known to them on the register.

I contacted Clerkenwell & Shoreditch CC and they also state they have no record of him as a registered bailiff.

I want to make a compliant against them both the other bailiff Mr J. is registered. What do I do now?

[Guest ChloeJane]

Replied to your PM.

 

Drakes are very good in stating a Bailiff is Certificated when they are not.

 

I have had this run in with them before and caught them out many times so you will have a case.

 

Let me know with the pm.

 

A

[monkey_man]

just read this thread this is shocking I can't believe people can do this to minors, hope you get success with this

[Samphire]

THey can and do take advantage of children. Mine was a DCA who were phoning while I was at work, they interigated my 15.5 year old as to 'does mummy leave you alone often' and mentioned Social Services twice in the call. Truely shocking behaviour.

[fireman1963]

Just to let you all know I have sent off a complaint to the court regarding the baliffs. Now waiting for their reply, will keep you posted.

[fireman1963]

For those of you out there that have followed this thread, I have now had a letter from HMCS and they have written to the two bailiffs asking them to give a their account to the letter that i sent to the court they had seven days to reply that was up last week, so I am now waiting to hear from the court.

Drakes have also failed to supply a SAR so I have given them 14 days or the ICO will be getting a compliant from me too.

[sillygirl1]

Excellent, the sooner more people realise how bailiffs can behave when given the chance the sooner the 'powers that be' will get the Enforcement Bill amended.

 

Please keep us informed of the situation.