Bleackley Vs Abbey

[angeraboutabbey]

Hello one and all,

 

This is my first post. I have been with abbey for almost 10 years now.

 

I have kept statements for almost a full six years and have calculated charges paid since September 2001 todate as being slightly under £2000.

 

I wrote to Abbey in March 2006, got back standard reply - sorry you feel hard done by but charges are legal and still stand.

 

Wrote again in June after a busy term at school (work as teacher), and a new selection on charges, to explain that I would commence legal proceedings should full settlement not be made within the next 14 days. This time received a slightly stronger letter saying back off or we will consider our relationship unrepairably damaged and close your account. I was well thrown back by this and unsure of how to proceed really so just let things lie.

 

In rolls decembers statement from Abbey with new charges of £140. These were incurred as follows:

 

£20 - over overdraft limit, £30 cleared D/D for £27, £30 for cleared visa £6.72, £30 for cleared visa £3.00 and £30 for cleared visa payment of £3.30

 

 

Furious I phoned the bank and was quite forcefully told that I had been warned about the application of charges on several occassions and so none would be revoked. I asked for a copy of my bank charges for the last six years and was told there would be a charge of £10. I agreed to this as ok and was then warned of a delay - 12 to 15 WEEKS !!! How can they operate like this. I asked why, A back log of compaints about charges no less !!! What does that say !

 

Any way I digress.

 

In the last letter from the Bank saying about closing account I vaguely remember a deadlne being stated in which to respond or the matter would be deemed dealt with. Having probably missed this (and lost the letter) have I blown my chances of getting my money back?

 

Can I restart the process, looking at the previous letters, my wish to value the long standing relationship we have and the continued and more recently totally over the top charges as a reason to now continue the claim for monies taken?

 

Any advice would be gratefully recieved - I have drafted a letter to the bank if anyone woudl like to view and comment.

 

 

You advice is gratefully recieved

angeraboutabbey

[Michael Browne]

Of course you can restart the process. I would resend the LBA amended:

 

Further to my letters dated xx/xx/xx and xx/xx/xx etc and then file at court 14 days later.

3. Letter before action - Consumer version - asking for it back

 

For your schedule of charges use the Simple S/S here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

and guide here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bcard-woolwich-successes/7226-maisielou-barclays.html#post50088

 

Overwrite the existing examples type of charge, amount and date.

 

The days since and 8% will be calculated automatically

 

Save it (for use later at court), then delete/hide the last 2 columns (8% bits) and print out as your schedule of charges.

 

 

If you're concerned about a/c closure open a parchute a/c:

Do you need a parachute account?

[cross1217]

Oh.....good old Abbey!. No, you have not blown your chances but you should stick to your guns and work to the timetable advised here on CAG. I would send a second Letter Before Action detailing your claim and giving them 14 days or else you will file your claim. The money they have charged you is rightfully (arguably) yours and then proceed with court claim. Post your letter on the site and then send recorded delivery to London - Triton Square, Regents Park address. I am not a moderator and only offer this advice from experience I have gained since proceeding with my claim.

 

Best of luck to you!

[angeraboutabbey]

Thanks guys ,

Good to know I haven't shot myself in the foot yet. Find copy of letter to send below, comments as always gratefully recieved.

Best wishes

angeraboutabbey

Dear Sir/Madam,

It is with regret that I write again in complaint of the continued application of unfair and unlawful charges to my bank account, asking once more that you reconsider your refusal to repay the charges you have taken from my account over the last six years before legal action is taken to recover them.

Both of my previous letters (last one dated 6th June) have been responded to negatively. In your last response you even threatened to close my account if further action was taken by me against the bank, as our relationship would be deemed to have broken down beyond repair. In light of this I had been prepared to give the account another chance, preferring to value our long standing relationship. However you have continued to take unreasonable sums of money from my account in the form of penalty charges and have now become unwilling to negotiate the application of these with me. With this in mind I now find I am unable to accept any further charges being levied on my account and am prepared to risk the closure of my account in order to recover these funds. I find this necessary course of action even more disappointing as a loyal customer of almost ten years.

Recent High profile cases of legal action being taken against the banks, assistance from the consumer action group and 1999 Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations has shown that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and in Consumer regulations. My research has found that bank charges are not legally enforceable if they are penalties. Penalty clauses in contracts in English law for breach of contract are not legal if the penalty exceeds the actual cost of the breach of either party. In addition charges made for the service of clearing transactions and handling my transgressions outside of the limits of my overdraft are unlawful as they are not reasonable under S.15, Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Bearing in mind the actual cost to Abbey of servicing such transactions, by their very nature highly computerised and carried out by the thousand, the charges cannot be seen to be reasonable. Taking the most recent example of £140 of charges being applied for transactions totalling a mere £40.02, I am confident that any court would be happy to place judgement in my favour.

To date the total value of fees that you have withdrawn from my account is £1938.50. I have again attached a copy of my schedule of charges for your information showing the most recent charges added. I request that this sum is returned to my account within the next 14 days. Bearing in mind my two previous letters regarding this matter please consider this to be my final letter before action. Failure to respond positively will result in court proceedings being commenced; without further notice. At this point an additional sum will be levied in interest allowed at 8% and costs. Obviously you have the option to make the full and final settlement of my charges within the 14 day period to avoid this extra amount being added.

I look forward to your positive response.

Yours faithfully

[Michael Browne]

Perfect. Get it sent off.

[angeraboutabbey]

Does anyone have the main address to which Abbey post should be sent when dealing with this stuff. Seems silly to post to the local branch when they are unlikely to deal with it themselves.

 

Thanks in advance.

[kia]

its london triton square regents park and the lba letter is excellent sorry to butt in but im at the same stage and im gonna borrow your letter as its just wot i need xxkia

[angeraboutabbey]

No worrys Kia, its good to have some feedback about the letter - even better to get positive feedback too.

 

Just to update - sent off letter first class recorded yesterday and look forward to their reply. This time there is going to be no stopping me!

 

Have a good weekend one and all.;-)

[ijustwantasimplelife]

Hi

I have just read your thread and am really interested to follow it. I am about to send my second letter to them, will start my own thread asap. Shabbey seem to be very arrogant don't they.

Will keep following and wish you good luck.

[angeraboutabbey]

Hello All,

 

Had another letter from Abbey today - it was the standard sorry you are not happy with our service letter with leaflet about taking your complaint further...however, it had been adapted slightly to inlcude specific dates that I had been told about charging policies and had charges revoked and also referred to their terms and conditions that I had signed to.

 

Does this mean they will be able to block my application for the charges to be repaid? I am really angery with them and will be moving bank anyway - I have just opened a new account and will quietly swap DD's and salery payments (not getting the new account to do it). Abbey seem to think they can walk all over everyone and seem to have an answer to everthing we do.

 

I am quite concerned that Abbey will end up letting me get my day in court and then use the fact that I know nothing about the legal system to jump the charges and end up stinging me for more. I understand the basics principles of my claim but would find it really hard to stand up and explain them clearly in order to justify it. Could anyone point me to or describe in depth to me in a way to put the basics of my claim so that I could repeat it.

 

Thanks in advance.

[sharmal]

My claimis against Cahoot a subsidery(can't spell) of Abbey National and my case is 10 days away from County Court hearing.

 

Basically the argument is this. The banks are charging fees that are disproportioate to the actual costs that they incur.

 

The OFT in April 2005 said that they needed to rethink their charges and stated that £12 would be fairer.

 

Obviously the banks did not agree.

 

All over these sites is loads of information, read other peoples threads, especially the longer ones and you will be able to follow the people and their cases so that you know what to do and in what order.

 

You do not need to worry about court yet, as it is a few months off and you might not even get that far. All the other cases that I had were settled near enough straight away after I did a claim online with MCOL.

 

Most of the information that you need is in the Libraries section at the top of the page, as are all the letters that you will need to send and they have the time frames written in to them.

 

Finally if you get any questions put them in your thread and someone will come along and answer them at some point.

 

For more detailed information trawl through the court bundle in the Libraries section.

 

I hope this helps. Sharmal

[kia]

hiya the thing is youve got to appear confidant even if your not cos i know nothing about court systems or anything but i want my money back so you learn on the way and you will get there with this sites helpxxkia

[cross1217]

Know the contents of the court bundle - no one is expecting you to appear as a Barrister and ague your case in court. But if, i mean IF you had to attend court with Abbey be at least prepared to argue the main principles as outlined in your bundle.

 

Anyway, you wont need to - Abbey have failed to argue their case in court so far - prefering to pay out thousands to their customers.

 

Best of luck - hold on and you will win!

[angeraboutabbey]

Hello all,

 

I think in need a change of Thread title - BLEACKLEY VS ABBEY !!!

 

Sorted out the court papers today, come on Abbey!

 

 

Guess it's time to start panicking now!

 

 

Would appreciate a little guideance in preparing for court. It seems quite hard to find details of actual cases that have been sucessful vs abbey. It would be great to be able to quote cases at them.

 

Also read the thread about going to court and am a little concerned about having to pursuade a judge that my case is right. Will I need to be able to explain why my charges are unlawful? I kind of get the basic idea but would still find it hard to explain in real terms - any suggestions of where I can find a simple, laymans terms explanation that will be easily recalled in court?

 

There is so much information in so many places I don't think my head can cope.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any help

[angeraboutabbey]

Wow, getting busy on here!!!

 

Abbey must be in for a right hammering if we are all successful, probably have to put their charges up to cover it!

 

 

Actually made it to the court yesterday, got stuck in school monday and missed closing time. Court said all looked ok.

 

Any ideas how long before I hear from them with case details confirmed?

 

What about Abbey, will they contact me directly or will everything go through the court now.

 

Have added a few extra bits on to the spreadsheet that I think make interesting points. Put in the value of the transaction causing the charge and the final debit balance) the bit over the overdraft at least. It is amazing how often I am getting charged for transaction of less than £10 or that take me less than £10 over the limit.

 

What is even worse is that my statement dates run 20th to 20th of the month (actually says this!!) and I am sometimes getting charged the going over the overdraft fee (£20) in two months statements. I get paid on 25th of month and they are charging me for going over the draft (when i do) before the end of the statement. Then inthe next statement I am getting charged before I am getting paid (a couple of days after the first charge). This really does seem to me to be plain and simple theft but they will not have any of it.

 

Well hopefully I'll soon show them.

 

Still be grateful of any feedback to my previous quote regarding laymans explanation and case numbers of successful claims.

 

 

Thanks in advance

[Mad Nick]

It seems quite hard to find details of actual cases that have been sucessful vs abbey.

Have a look at the end of Karne's Sticky about Witness Statements etc at the top of the Abbey page

 

Any ideas how long before I hear from them with case details confirmed? What about Abbey, will they contact me directly or will everything go through the court now.

It'll be a mixture - Abbey's defence (if they do) will come from the Court but Abbey will write to you and ask for your phone/E-mail (I wonder why !?!). Some people then test Abbey out direct to see if they'll cave in by, say, letting them see their AQ and draft Directions - to let Abbey know that resistance is futile. Won't always work, but it brightens up a winter day ! Ultimately, it's probably going to end in a phone call from Abbey trying to settle.

 

any suggestions of where I can find a simple, laymans terms explanation that will be easily recalled in court?

How about this :

• a default charge has to be proportionate to the cost of the default
  
• if it isn't, then it constitutes a penalty which is unenforceable (by virtue of Dunlop and UTCCR and others)
  
• Abbey says its default charges are proportionate but refuses to disclose its costs
  
• You are therefore relying on : Australian survey, OFT credit card investigation, Treasury Select Committee, Competition Commission NI inquiry, BBC2 Money Programme all of which concluded that Banks default charges are significantly disproportionate.
  
• QED

Regards, Mad Nick.

[kia]

my heads been spinning for months now and ive gotta get a grip xxkia

[angeraboutabbey]

Thanks Nick, that is some really useful advice there.

 

What you all in aspin about Kia? Anything I can help with?

 

Cheers Guys

[angeraboutabbey]

Sorry to be a pain Nick,

 

Do you have any links to some of the documents you have mentioned?

 

Thanks

[kia]

the more i read the more i get confused and cos some time has elapsed im not so sure of myself as i was court is very daunting

[Mad Nick]

Ang(etc)

Do you have any links to some of the documents you have mentioned?

In no particular order (and bear in mind that you only need small extracts from the larger documents) :

EDMDetails

EDMDetails

Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2083

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/2EBC491E-303E-4FAA-A24D-32EF8396255E/0/oft842.pdf

Reports

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmtreasy/1717/1717.pdf

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtreasy/274/274.pdf

Provisional Findings report -Northern Irish personal banking

BBC NEWS | Business | Are penalty charges bank robbery?

http://www.swarb.co.uk/lisc/Damag19001929.php (dunlop 1/2 way down page)

Regards, Mad Nick

[angeraboutabbey]

Thanks Nick, you are a star.

 

This will help no end, have had a bit of slack over the past few days so spent some time preparing evidence for the court bundle already - hopefully a total waste of time as Abbey will pay up before it gets that far but better to be safe than sorry.

 

 

Cheers

[angeraboutabbey]

Hello again everyone,

 

CASE NOS: 7TW00143 in TROWBRIDGE COUNTY COURT

 

 

Have now recieved confirmation of Serice being filed, stating the defendant has responded to the claim indicating to defend all of the claim. Says they now have 28 days to file the defence. Guess all I can do is wait now.

 

Problem is this came through really quickly, most others mentioned here seem to have Abbey using the full 14days to respond - they responded to mine in less than a week!

 

I am really concerned that they have something over me that I have no idea about and that in reality I don't stand a chance against them.

 

I have spent a bit more time working on my schedule of charges and have now added to this coloumns to show the transaction value and final account balance for every transaction - it shows many charges for visa payments of less than £5 and for final balances just over the limit, I hope this will fall in my favour. Abbey have also failed to reply to letters I have sent them requesting copies of correspondance relating to the case. Can they just blank me like this?

 

What is the process now? Abbey file a defense and then we both have to fill in AQ's.

 

Is there anything I can do to help prepare for this. I would like to be able to go for a really quick turn around on the documents and let abbey know I am ready for them. I have already printed copies of supporting legislation and recorded some case numbers, copied my statements and highlighted every charge where it appears the month before and then is taken from the account linking this to the schedule of charges too. Feel like a bit of a spare part at the moment!

 

As usual thank to you all for the help and support you have gieven me.

 

Hope to update you all again soon.

[121o121]

Hi, don't worry.

 

I am dealing with Cahoot (Abbey with a false moustache) and my claim was acknowledged by them 3 days after I received my notice of issue.

 

They should now file a defence and when this happens you will receive an allocation questionnaire.

 

Check the banking templates folder so your prepared for your AQ. You can also include some draft directions for the judge to consider. I would also advise familiarising yourself with the court bundle (again in the banking templates folder). With Abbey it seems inevitable you'll need to prepare one.

[Michael Browne]

What is the process now? Abbey file a defense and then we both have to fill in AQ's.

Yes, if you feel like a bit of a spare part at the moment, you can prepare here:

Allocation Questionnaire - N149 on-line PDF Version

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c.../n149_1105.pdf

Allocation Questionnaires - A guide to completion

Allocation Questionnaires - A guide to completion

Allocation Questionnaire - Draft directions order

New strategy for Allocation Questionaires