Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been returned as refused and have SJPN Form

[Theclaw123]

Hi All

Could really do with some advice

whislt return from a stressful hospital visit to my mother i was caught speeding doing 46 in a 40 mph limit, i should have known better i knew the camera was there but visit was very stressful and i switched off, totally my fault, the date of the speeding was 13/11/2023

by the time i received the letter i accepted my indiscretion and filled in all the required details on the 20/11/2023 having a clean license hoping  to the speed awareness course.

With my mothers ongoing illness i left it at that and waited on reply but i did not receive anything until 01/05/2024 when i received a return to sender letter with the NIP opened inside and a sticker ticked refused,

02/05/2024 i then received a Single notice procedure in the post for the speeding and failure to provide information

i need to reply asap i not sent back, i have 21 days and can plead online but my question is what do i do /fill in on the form,  i have not had this before 

i really do not feel as if i have done anything wrong

i have checked everything on form and the address and sent well within timescale

now i face filling a form in of which i have no idea and do not now what to please either,

i will have to fill in the online form soon or will pass deadline

any advice would be greatly appreciated

[jk2054]

Can you please upload a copy of the form you need to complete? 
 

Make sure no ref numbers are on it

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

I've edited your post to put some paragraphs in it so the people advising find it easier to read.

Hopefully people will be along later and I'm also tagging @Man in the middle who is very good on motoring stuff. If he's around I hope he might pop in.

Best, HB

[dx100uk]

scan the form to PDF

read upload

dx

 

[Theclaw123]

Thank you All,

i apologise for the lack of paragraphs i'm new 

unsure how to use this and cannot convert my photos of the forms to pdf's

sorry so i really don't know what do,

was very stressed with everything going on without his happening.

i don't know if i should just plead guilty online because i'm going to run out of time and worried.

There's loads of forms  but it's mainly three options to

plead guilty - do i want to attend court,

guilty -i don't want to attend court,

Not guilty.

then two options to plead to the speeding offence and failure to give information.

The another page for mitigation and others for details like earnings etc

[honeybee13]

Slow down a bit, this will be OK.   You have another three days, yes? 

Hopefully people will be along to advise later.

HB

 

[dx100uk]

what is the actual charge please type it out.

dx

[Theclaw123]

Exceeda 40 mph speed limit in contravention of a local traffic order - 46mph 

Fail to give information relating to information of the driver

Please see above i did this and received a return to sender nearly six months later

[Man in the middle]

Do not under any circumstances plead guilty until we know what we are dealing with. It's a sure way to 9 points.

The tried and tested way to handle this is to plead not guilty to both charges and offer to plead guilty to speeding provided the "Fail to give information" charge is dropped. But I am concerned about this "ticket refused" sticker. I've never heard of this before. A "ticket" is not a term used in connection with speeding offences.

There seems a distinct possibility that your response was received by the police but one thing worries me: I've never heard of a sticker being placed on a response and it being returned "Return to Sender". t's just not what ticket offices do. If you could post a picture of this document and the sticker it might help. 

If you can show the response was received you may have a defence to the "Fail to Provide" charge (provided you completed your response properly).

If the police are saying you did not respond they cannot succeed with a speeding charge (as they have no evidence you were driving). But if you did not respond, who put the sticker on the document and sent it back yo you?

[dx100uk]

i see you are posting this all over the internet too.

here you say it was returned by the safety camera dept

UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?

WWW.FTLA.UK

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UK, Wales Returned NIP Nov23 - Heard Nothing - Now It's been returned as refused and have SJPN Form. Help please?

 

[Theclaw123]

Hi Apologies 

i'm just desperate for help

yes tried there also,

it's just so scary the threat of 9 points for something i feel i have provide all the information i can on,

the sticker id from the Royal mail saying refused but dated 12.12.23 with initials on but i did not receive it until beginning of May,

the outer envelope that the Post Office returned it in has my address and a code on 3-048 23104224? if that means anything. i'm sorry this is making me really anxious as i have to respond but don't know what to do 

Also strangely on SJPN notice it mentions that all correspondence delivered to the safety camera unit by the royal mail is handed in a post bag directly to a member of staff and mail is opened at a work station and envelopes opened using an electronic opener the contents removed and collated 

[jk2054]

please read upload and use it to upload the documents we need

[honeybee13]

I think we would find it very helpful if you could show us Man in the Middle asked for, so we can figure out what's happened. As jk says, you can use our upload guide.

Make sure you cover up your name and address.

HB

[Man in the middle]

Without seeing this envelope, document and sticker it is impossible to advise properly. However, just going on what you have told us, there are two ways you can deal with this:

!. The easy way. This has the lowest risk but the guarantee of a penalty for speeding. 

You can respond to the SJPN by pleading “Not Guilty” to both charges. In the “Reasons for pleading Not Guilty” box you can explain that you responded to the request for driver’s details but it was recently returned to you, seemingly not actioned. However, you are willing to plead guilty to the speeding charge providing, and only providing, the “Fail to Provide Driver's Details" (FtP) charge is dropped. You could also ask the court to consider sentencing you at the fixed penalty level (£100 and 3 points) as this prosecution seems to be the result of an administrative problem outside your control.

2. The not so easy way with higher risk. This could see you convicted of the FtP charge but has the possibility that you escape with no penalty whatsoever.

You can do the same – plead not guilty to both charges. If you go down this route the speeding charge cannot succeed as they have no evidence you were driving. This comes from your response to the request for driver’s details which the police say they have not got. You can mention in the “Reasons” box that you returned the request for driver’s details as required. You will then face a trial for the FtP charge and you can produced your response together with the envelope and sticker showing it had been returned to you. The risk with this is that if your defence fails you will be fined a week and a half’s net income, pay a “Victim Surcharge” of 40% of the fine, pay prosecution costs of around £650 and have six points together with an endorsement code (MS90) which will see your insurance premiums rocket.

Edited May 21 by Man in the middle

[dx100uk]

so it was royal mail that returned it, it never got to the wales camera safety team.

what address did you put on it?

dx

 

[Theclaw123]

Hi Man in the Middle / dx100uk / Honeybee13 

Hopefully i have managed to attach the requested, sorry everyone not great at this. I put the requested address and it was correct i have checked numerous times to make sure

 

form+env.pdf

[Ethel Street]

I am having difficulty reading the downloads, I'm on mobile with poor reception.

Are any of them the envelope that was returned by Royal Mail? If so does it show that you had put a stamp on it for the correct postage?

I am wondering whether it was refused because it was posted with no stamp or insufficient postage or using the old stamps with no barcode that are no longer valid.

 

[dx100uk]

now one PDF try again.

 

[dx100uk]

1 minute ago, Ethel Street said:

I am wondering whether it refused because it was posted with stamp or insufficient postage or using the old stamps with no barcode that are no longer valid.

 invalid out of date stamp.

• OLD-STYLE first and second class stamps are set to expire in 2023 as Royal Mail rolls out a new barcode system. The date to use regular stamps that don't have a barcode was originally January 31, but this has been extended until July 31.

[Theclaw123]

Aww No

i didn't even realise with all that's going on with my mother, i never send letters anymore that was the first and last i've sent in years.

They say on the SJPN they sent a reminder but i never received that plus why did it take so long to send back.

Could you please advise what my best course of action will now be please i really cannot afford the costs or all the points on my licence  

[Ethel Street]

So it's clear what happened. You unwittingly posted it to the Safety Camera Unit without a valid stamp. Presumably they have a policy of refusing to accept unstamped mail (otherwise they would have to pay to receive it). 

They refused it 12.12.23 so the delay in returning it to you is entirely down to Royal Mail, not the Safety Camera Unit.

Wait for @Man in the middle to come back with further advice.

 

 

 

 

[Man in the middle]

So, your response was not received by the SCP as you did not send it with a valid stamp.

Therefore, from my two option in post #14, the first option is the only one available to you, but you do not have the option of asking to be sentenced at the fixed penalty level as the reason the SCP did not receive your response was down to you. Here's a reminder of what to do:

Respond to the SJPN by pleading “Not Guilty” to both charges. In the “Reasons for pleading Not Guilty” box state that you are willing to plead guilty to the speeding charge providing, and only providing, the “Fail to Provide Driver's Details" (FtP) charge is dropped. This is a tried and tested method to deal with your problem and is almost always successful.

Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to do this "deal" because it needs the agreement of the police prosecutor.. During the pandemic courts made every effort to have as few  people as possible attend and they began doing this deal under the "Single Justice" procedure without the defendant's attendance. Some courts have carried this procedure on whilst others have reverted to a personal attendance being necessary.

If you are required to attend, your case will be taken out of the SJ procedure and you will be given a date for a hearing in the normal Magistrates' Court. If that is the way they do it in the area involved you will have to attend, see the prosecutor and offer your "deal" in person. 

[Theclaw123]

Thank you Man in the Middle, Everyone

I know this may not make a difference but is it worth mentioning the fact i did believe i sent everything correctly but with all going on with my mother at the did not realise that stamp was not valid?

Also the SJNP notes say they sent a reminder i did definitely receive this if i did it would have prompted me to realise something was wrong and rectified.

I have to fill the form in online today so any more advice is gratefully received.

The area is Gwent in South Wales it states on the form if i plead not guilty then send me the date of the trial

Sorry

as i've stated previously totally new to this and thank you for you assistance 

i know you cannot say for certain but realistically by pleading the above what would be the most likely outcome be ?

is it still likely to be 3 points and £100 fine ?

or am i likely to receive higher and more fees?

[honeybee13]

Hopefully Man in the Middle will be able to pop in today, but he does have a day job.

Also the SJNP notes say they sent a reminder i did definitely receive this

Are you saying you did receive the reminder or you didn't please?

HB

 

[Theclaw123]

Hi Honeybee13 No i 100% did not received reminder if i did it would have set alarms bells ringing that something wrong