Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

PCM PCN - Royale Leisure Park - W3 (London)


Recommended Posts

Hi everyone, appreciate your help in this.

Today (18/04/2024) I received a "Parking charge - Keeper liability notice for Royale Leisure Park - W3"

stating that I "parked without clearly displaying a valid PCM UK Ltd permit.

The car was parked on the 8th of March 2024 at the car park for Park Royal Leisure Park in London. The letter stated that a notice to keep was sent 28 days ago, but I have not received any charge letter or ticket. 

I don't know what permit they are talking about.

The leisure park does not have tickets, it has free parking for 5 hours- this is clearly stated on their website.

Furthermore, I think the Parking Charge is invalid because, on March 8th, I was a customer at Royale Leisure Park, where I attended to watch a movie at the Odeon Cinema. I can prove my purchase of the ticket.

The Royal Leisure Park has free parking for 5 hours as stated on their website (see attached screenshot), so they should not have given me the charge in the first place.

Should I contact them to state that I should not have been given a charge?

I'm concerned about the charge rising if I don't contact them. 

Your advice is greatly appreciated. 

Thank you.

 

parking rules park royal.pdf

2024-04-12 PCM NTK event 2024-03-08.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

please complete this:

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • dx100uk changed the title to PCM PCN - Royale Leisure Park - W3 (London)

The answers to the questions:

1 Date of the infringement: 08/03 2024

2 Date on the NTK notice to keeper. 12/04/2024

3 Date received  only received keeper liability notice. 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  Yes 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No but I didn't receive the initial PCN. 

6 Have you appealed? No 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking control management (UK) ltd


8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Royal leisure park, London W3. 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

Link to post
Share on other sites

their NTK is outside of 14 days for an ANPR capture unless there was a vanishing windscreen PCN.?

typical screw up that PCM always make

ignore until/unless you ever get a letter of claim.

just to make sure ......your car's V5C does state your current address? if so where's the pcn? naughty PCM

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input.

My v5c must state my current otherwise I wouldn't have got this claim letter.

Also I have 24/4 video recording on my car when it is parked.

I can always check if a ticket was placed on my windscreen, but I doubt it. 

I'll keep an eye out for any letters. 

Best regards. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Hamz909 said:

My v5c must state my current otherwise I wouldn't have got this claim letter.

mainly for future readers..BUT..

nope not true, ....

they could have used a trace agency to find your address, never assume a V5C is correct if you find paperwork that should have arrived at the RK's address has not always CHECK. esp if you've moved in recent times or since the date of the parking event.

dx

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As they have failed to deliver their original PCN you will need to send them an SAR where they should provide that PCN. It should show the address they used . If it is not your current one that would explain the non delivery. If it was correct then perhaps the Post office messed up. A more cynical view would be that UKPC didn't send it so that you couldn't claim the reduction.

It appears that UKPC have been there for some time  but I have been unable to find any pictures of their Notices.The leisure park itself is pretty big so while some parts maybe give 5 hours free parking other parts may have restrictions like permits. I haven't been there for years -I went  to Nandos and the bowling centre . I am surprised that they are now infested with UKPC as the place is plenty big enough not to require their dubious services.

If you live not to far away it would help if you could get some legible pictures of their signs. Be carful to park in an area that doesn't require a permit and take photos of the entrance signs, the five hour sign and the permit only sign as well as any other signs that are different from the previous signs. Also if their is a payment machine could you please photograph that.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Your attachment showing the cinema parking restrictions seems crystal clear.

Let's see what the photos turn up.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even on their map on their website, these parking rules encompass the whole pleasure park - there is no dedicated area for permits and another for free parking as stated.

 

These are the photos of the signs.

At the entrance there is a 7h free sign.

On some bays there is a permit sign. 

Also their official website is misleading as it implies all parking is free. 

I can't be certain of the exact parking bay I was in that day, and there was no PCN ticket on my car and no other evidence was provided. 

 

 

 

MAP+Signs.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

The signs do say a 7-hour stay (presumably five free plus two paying).

But they also go on about a permit.

What the logic is of a permit when watching a film or going to flippin' Burger King is beyond me.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

How does one obtain the permit?

The permit team number is only open between the hours of 9am to 3pm Mon - Fri.

It says on the website, To obtain an additional 2 hours, the driver must pay a tariff of £3.00 + booking fees in person at our Security Hut, is that how you get the permit also, from the security hut?

What a rigmaroll that would be but maybe just another step to take to try and catch people out?

3 minutes ago, anotheruser0000 said:

 

Edited by anotheruser0000
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there are two types of parking spot, some with permit, others without, although the website does not state this and the map on the website gives the impression that all spaces are free. 

The question is how can they know which space I was parked in? There was no ticket on my windscreen, and I did not receive the original NTK. 

Should I contact them to ask for photographic evidence? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had a look on their site to see if there is a way to download photos, but haven't found anything.

The best thing is to send them a SAR on Monday.  Invest in a 2nd class stamp and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

That way they will have to produce the original invoice, a windscreen ticket if it exists, photos, etc.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...