MET ANPR PCN Claimform - overstay - ignored everything - (346) SOUTHGATE PARK STANSTED CM24 1PY ***Claim Discontinued***

[dx100uk]

you can. but it might not come to that.

who know if they will carry it fwd.

dx

[lookinforinfo]

You will be able to ask for a translator if you need one. I understand that while one is able to speak quite competently in a second language it is another thing keeping up with conversation where legalese is involved as well as wanting to be able to know exactly what is being said when your money is at risk.

[wisniawy]

That’s my point . I haven’t got a problem talking English but  when it comes to few „technical „ words it would  makes life easier. So who pays for a translator I wonder ? Taxpayer ? 

[honeybee13]

I think you need to speak to the court. Looking at the link below, I'm not sure being the defendant in a parking claim means that you get a court interpreter.

Get an interpreter at a court or tribunal - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

Ask for an interpreter at a court or tribunal hearing - who's eligible, how to apply, when friends or family can act as interpreters

HB

 

[FTMDave]

That link doesn't look very promising.

[honeybee13]

About a translator, do you mean? The link itself works for me.

HB

[FTMDave]

Sorry HB, expressed myself badly, the link is indeed fine, it's the odds of getting a translator at civil court which aren't good.

[honeybee13]

Sadly that's what I think as well, Dave.

HB

[wisniawy]

I agree . But it does say if you don’t speak English then you can get one . My only worry is if I say I am not comfy defending in English and translator turns up to be even worse I will ring court and ask out of curiosity anyway  let’s see what clerk advise 

[honeybee13]

Yes, it says you can get a translator but it doesn't say the court will pay. There shouldn't be a problem with the standard of translating, I think the link I posted says they're properly qualified.

Ringing them is a good idea because if you decide to have a translator the court needs advance warning.

HB

[FTMDave]

A  few things here.

On 13/12/2023 at 22:47, lookinforinfo said:

The good thing is that as the event took place at Stansted it is covered by airport Byelaws

Are we sure about this LFI?

I know the car park is very, very near the airport, so I'm guessing you're right, but I don't think we've ever found out for sure.  Maybe I'm wrong.

In VCS "managed" car parks there has been so much litigation that the bye-law matter was settled years ago, but until recently MET have never been litigious here.

If i were wisniaw I would contact Stansted with their webform  https://www.stanstedairport.com/help/contact-details/  and ask (a) to be e-mailed a copy of the bye-laws, (b) to be informed of what area the bye-laws cover and (c) specifically if Southgate  Road is covered by bye-laws.

[FTMDave]

All  of us are different, there's no right or wrong - but please consider if you are worrying unnecessarily about needing a translator.

Small claims court is based on informality, capped legal costs, the non-use of solicitors and non-use of legalese.  Your case isn't really that complicated - you stayed a long time, so it will come down to whether the signage was pants or not, nothing legally complicated.

I'm speaking from experience as I've been in both civil and criminal court in the EU without a translator for hearings held in my second language - and I came out fine (although bits were certainly worrying).  However, small claims court is not like that.  It's very informal.

[lookinforinfo]

To answer your question Dave

I would say the odds are in our favour.

We have quite a few Caggers with PCNs from that site.

Not one of them is PoFA compliant and I think most of them have not been delivered within the 14 day time scale since there is little point in making them compliant when they are subject to Bye Laws.

I have looked at the last six Met Stansted PCNs and not one of them states that if payment is not made within 28 days they will have the right to transfer the charge to the keeper.

Whereas if I look at  two recent Met PCNs not issued in Stansted they both state that the keeper will be liable for the debt.

Re your requirement for a translator-

If a defendant requires an interpreter to interpret the proceedings, it is the responsibility of the court to arrange for the attendance and payment of an independent interpreter. Apr 17, 2019

Interpreters | The Crown Prosecution Service

Crown Prosecution Service

https://www.cps.gov.uk › legal-guidance › interpreters

[honeybee13]

That's for criminal cases AIUI, LFI. Does it apply to small claims as well?

[lookinforinfo]

Thanks for pointing that out Honey Bee. You are right that statement was intended for criminal cases not civil courts. I am sorry to have misled you Wisniawy.

Apparently they do not appear to have had the funding for interpreters back in 2020 in a pamphlet I have since read. There are occasions when defendants have been permitted by the court to allow a friend to interpret but not sure that the courts will pay.

Then again in the type of cases that we are dealing with most of the decisions are made by the Judge mostly on what was said in the respective Witness statements. And not every case is the defendant cross examined by lawyers. Though the Judge may well ask something perhaps in clarification but even that is limited to a few questions.

[wisniawy]

Hi there 

I have received reply from the court pls see attached.

 Did you get the same ?

„Lostthebrick” ?? 

 

ACK of defence filing.pdf

[FTMDave]

Standard letter.

[wisniawy]

Cool 

[dx100uk]

On 22/12/2023 at 20:49, dx100uk said:

usually...that is if they decide to go fwd, and the claim doesnt get autostayed...(2-3mts..start cheering)

but you need to get reading a good few pcn claimform threads.

about 20+ a day then you'll know everything

we dont nursemaid esp as now you are in a down period .

CAG are predominantly self help

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Have you looked into the bye-laws matter?

[wisniawy]

I can email Stansted regarding bye laws in Southgate Road . But so far I was under impression that see below : 

car park operator at Stansted Airport cannot prove that the land around Stanstead Airport is not subject to statutory control under airport bye laws. 
 

So I understand if they cannot identify the driver they cannot rely on POFA right? In a letter reply to „lostthebrick „ from solicitors upon his CPR request what does it actually clarify? Does is clarify anything there ? There was a lot of pages uploaded by him but no one seemed to summarised 

Btw my PCN was delivered to me within 14 days but it’s gonna be irrelevant if that car park it’s covered by bye laws isn’t? 

[FTMDave]

3 hours ago, wisniawy said:

car park operator at Stansted Airport cannot prove that the land around Stanstead Airport is not subject to statutory control under airport bye laws.

How do you know that?  You will look silly if you state that Southgate Road is subject to bye-laws and then they produce a copy of the bye-laws in their Witness Statement that show it outside the bye-laws area.

You need to find out for certain.  This was suggested on Tuesday and I'm amazed you still haven't got on to the airport.

3 hours ago, wisniawy said:

Btw my PCN was delivered to me within 14 days but it’s gonna be irrelevant if that car park it’s covered by bye laws isn’t? 

Exactly.  So you need to find out about the bye-laws.

 

3 hours ago, wisniawy said:

In a letter reply to „lostthebrick „ from solicitors upon his CPR request what does it actually clarify? Does is clarify anything there ? There was a lot of pages uploaded by him but no one seemed to summarised

Lack of planning permission, contract heavily redacted to hide something, rubbish signage, etc.

[dx100uk]

ive searched most of the day.

what i can say is starbucks and mc'd's appear not to be the usual franchises and they do infact have a landlord. who that is  ...they could be the land owner.

the owner of the airport is since 2013 Manchester Airport Group (MAG) whom would be the people that would make and enforce their byelaws under the Airports Act 1986

[lookinforinfo]

Wisniawy having the PCN delivered within the statutory 14 days is not the only criteria that makes the ticket PoFA compliant. The wording in the NTK has to agree with the wording in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. None of the Stansted PCNs I have seen do comply and some of them surely would if the land was not covered by Byelaws.

Your PCN has a whole chunk of the Act missing and it is a very important part as it is the bit  that informs the keeper that they will have the charge transferred from the driver if the amount is not paid within 28 days. Ref Schedule 4 Section 9[2][f]

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

Yours does not say that and nor does any other airport PCN include the above section. And they cannot say it when the land is covered by Byelaws since non relevant lands are not included in PoFA .

Which is why keepers have to be very careful not to reveal who was driving when airport PCNs are involved. 

[FTMDave]

Have a read of Help099's thread - there have been important developments.