Seahorse v Cabot

[Seahorse]

Yup, it's a thought, innit. I'll see what/if he replies back to my last email. If he takes it in good humour, I'd like to think we'll be able to work together on this. If he doesn't reply, or get all humpitty... well, I think we all know what my reaction will be. Sometimes I think I just never grew up, my sense of humour being as childlike as it is.

[Donel261]

Seahorse, just posted my letter from Willem on my thread. Not worth the paper it is written on....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/25238-barclaycard-cabot-mackenzie-hall-3.html#post619307

[Seahorse]

Cheers for that. Just going to have a look now.

[Seahorse]

Well, slightly tangental to this thread, but an interesting snippet nonetheless.

 

I've just been down to see my solicitor about my claim against RBS. I thought I'd ask him while he was there if he'd be able to help me if I decide to make a claim for compensation against a certain debt purchasing company we all know and love. Certainly, says he. Where are they based? Kent, says I. Don't mention the name just yet, says he, but I bet I know who you mean.

 

So, by insinuation, it would appear that the legal profession up here in the wilds of Aberdeenshire are well acquainted with our buddies, Cabot. How very, very interesting.

 

Oi, Cabot. I bet my solicitor's dad is bigger than YOUR solicitor's dad.

[lookinforinfo]

Seahorse, may I pose a slightly different question to the one you asked

a few days ago.

CC company sells on a £3000 debt which includes £600 of charges to a DCA

who only pays £300 for it.

DCA chases debtor who reclaims the £600 from the CC company and wins.

CC company says they will pay the DCA. The question is how much will they pay? I don't think they will pay £600 when they only got £300 in the first place. Any suggestions as to how it is done?

[andrew1]

sorry to interupt here LFI, my situation with Citicards is exactly that, £920 debt sold to Cabot for what £100? max - I claimed £1000 charges back from Citi & got almost £500 but it was paid to Cabot. Thats £400 profit to Cabot... something wrong there.

[lookinforinfo]

Tricky one Andrew, and short of a Court case not sure how you would elicit the truth.

Sending an sar to either or both parties would probably reveal nothing as there is a third party involved.

You could try writing to Citicards pointing out that you are aware that they sold your debt for considerably less than the actual amount. Then ask how

the refund is treated between themselves and Cabot, as the refund came to

more than they were paid for the debt. Carbon copy to OFT.

[pmhcfc]

Any Cabot expert required here please http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/71858-kings-hill.html Apparently KH#1 are taking this guy to court for a CCJ ...I have PM'd you re this Seahorse....thanks

[Seahorse]

As I can't find an expert, I'll nip on over. I'm there now.

[Seahorse]

Just had a phone call from my local trading standards office. He'd like me to email everything I have so far to him, so off it goes this afternoon. He was initially concerned that as there might actually BE a debt, where was my justification for not paying, despite everything else. But when I explained that the debt was in dispute, and I'm chasing Barclaycard for unlawful charges, and it might be ME who is owed money, he seemed to cheer up somewhat. Hopefully, I'll get some sort of answer as to what's what sometime soon.

[Seahorse]

OK, just had a think. New strategy time.

 

I'm getting concerned that Cabot will try to wriggle off the hook by saying CF(Europe) does not have to abide by the CCA as they are not the new owners of the account. So, I'm going to start the ball rolling all over again by writing directly to KH/CF(UK) and cc'ing everything to CF(Europe). As we all know that I won't get any response from KH/CF(UK), that is hardly my problem. CF(UK) are the new creditors, ergo CF(UK) are liable to respond under the CCA. There is no point anyone saying, but we HAVE got you your agreement, because as we now know, what they supplied is just so much toilet paper. And neither have I received any statements of account as I originally requested in my CCA letter to them. I assume CF(Europe) will attempt to reply on CF(UK)'s behalf, but that's going to just get a standard reponse from me each time saying that the letter was cc only, and I require a response from CF(UK) to each of my communications. Which doesn't seem a very likely scenario.

 

In this way, I'll be showing that it is the new creditors, CF(UK) who are defaulting on everything, and when I take action against THEM, I'll be targeting the correct company.

 

I think this is the only way I'll be able to state that I've done everything by the book when it all gets legal.

[Seahorse]

Email off to our pal WW, as well as NG and KM.

 

Dear Mr Wellinghoff,

 

after much deliberation, I have decided that the proper course of action is now to deal directly with the owner of this account, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.

 

I understand that Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited are acting as collecting agents for Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. However, this really is not my concern. Cabot Financial (UK) Limited are the company that would be taking me to court if they feel they must do so. Therefore I believe that I have every right to correspond directly with them.

 

I trust that you will have no difficulty with this new arrangement, and I shall of course send you a courtesy copy of all communications. I shall however, only reply to you personally if you are writing under the Cabot Financial (UK) Limited banner, so to speak. Any attempt to reply in the guise of Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited will receive a standard reply reminding you of this new arrangement.

 

I realise that this may not be entirely suitable as far as Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited are concerned, but as I do not recognise the right of Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited to process my personal data, I feel I have no other choice. I also think that this step is necessary to try to remove some of the confusion that has crept into the equation.

 

Thank you for your invitation to further discuss this matter, as intimated in your previous email, included below.

 

Best Regards,

 

Seahorse

[debt_mountain]

Email off to our pal WW, as well as NG and KM.

did you mean to leave in your name.

[Seahorse]

OOPS. Well, WW, NG and KM must know who I am by now.

[pmhcfc]

OK, just had a think. New strategy time.

 

I'm getting concerned that Cabot will try to wriggle off the hook by saying CF(Europe) does not have to abide by the CCA as they are not the new owners of the account. So, I'm going to start the ball rolling all over again by writing directly to KH/CF(UK) and cc'ing everything to CF(Europe). As we all know that I won't get any response from KH/CF(UK), that is hardly my problem. CF(UK) are the new creditors, ergo CF(UK) are liable to respond under the CCA. There is no point anyone saying, but we HAVE got you your agreement, because as we now know, what they supplied is just so much toilet paper. And neither have I received any statements of account as I originally requested in my CCA letter to them. I assume CF(Europe) will attempt to reply on CF(UK)'s behalf, but that's going to just get a standard reponse from me each time saying that the letter was cc only, and I require a response from CF(UK) to each of my communications. Which doesn't seem a very likely scenario.

 

In this way, I'll be showing that it is the new creditors, CF(UK) who are defaulting on everything, and when I take action against THEM, I'll be targeting the correct company.

 

I think this is the only way I'll be able to state that I've done everything by the book when it all gets legal.

 

Seahorse...May I clarify something here...If you CCA a company, are they not (by law) supposed to pass on that CCA to the owner's of the alleged (as WW calls it) 'account' ?

 

I become more and more interested in Cabot's tactics in debt collection...If what I assume (re the sent CCA) is correct, I'd like to know what Cabot's argument would be in court.. "Sorry your honour, but we only collect debts for our 'client' " Client? Client? FGS..The fact that they operate out of the same building has sod all to do with anything! So from now on in, we just advise any newbies to the Cabot fan club to CCA Cabot (UK), is that right? Are Mr WW's letters simply a smoke screen, designed to confuse any non CGAer/Cabot fan club member?

[Seahorse]

I think it needs to be played carefully. Simply writing to CF(UK) will at best, get no response, at worst, nobody will sign for the letters, so can they claim they have had no contact from their "customer".

 

I think the initial contact still needs to be with CF(Europe). The dialoge is set, and as I have done, you have someone to tell later that you won't deal with them any more. If CF(UK) choose to ignore future letters, CCA etc mind you from the start again, it's their hard luck if you complain to all and sundry about non compliance, as they've had fair warning that the rules have changed. Why the heck should we have them dictating who we speak to? As far as I'm concerned, I have a perfect right to communicate with the people who are trying to pinch my money. Even if there isn't actually anybody there in reality. Looks like someone will need to be nominated Mr Cabot Financial (UK) Limited for a while.

 

And you are correct. They ARE by law supposed to pass on any CCAs SARs etc. But do they? Well, it would appear not. But who knows? Maybe Cabot Financial (UK) Limited ignore Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited too? Or would if the company wasn't staffed by ethereal beings with no substance whatsoever.

[andrew1]

I wrote to the Company Secretary of Kingshill No1 Ltd /aka Cabot Financial UK Ltd and was replied to on Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd headed paper.

[debt_mountain]

I think it needs to be played carefully. Simply writing to CF(UK) will at best, get no response, at worst, nobody will sign for the letters, so can they claim they have had no contact from their "customer".

 

I think the initial contact still needs to be with CF(Europe). The dialoge is set, and as I have done, you have someone to tell later that you won't deal with them any more. If CF(UK) choose to ignore future letters, CCA etc mind you from the start again, it's their hard luck if you complain to all and sundry about non compliance, as they've had fair warning that the rules have changed. Why the heck should we have them dictating who we speak to? As far as I'm concerned, I have a perfect right to communicate with the people who are trying to pinch my money. Even if there isn't actually anybody there in reality. Looks like someone will need to be nominated Mr Cabot Financial (UK) Limited for a while.

 

And you are correct. They ARE by law supposed to pass on any CCAs SARs etc. But do they? Well, it would appear not. But who knows? Maybe Cabot Financial (UK) Limited ignore Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited too? Or would if the company wasn't staffed by ethereal beings with no substance whatsoever.

Can you not write to one of the directors listed in the Registry House bumph? You could even send it c/o cabot europe as they are all the same people, or send it to their solicitors? I am sure they would have some sort of "must do" under the hyocratic oath....maybe that is out moto "Hypocratic OAFS":D

[pmhcfc]

I wrote to the Company Secretary of Kingshill No1 Ltd /aka Cabot Financial UK Ltd and was replied to on Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd headed paper.

 

This is unreal...Cabot (uk) does exist, but doesn't so to speak...you all know what I mean..So you send Cabot Europe a CCA, they say it's not up to them to comply to it cos they don't ownt he debt..They don't (as they should) pass on the CCA and when you CCA CAB UK, it's getting delivered to CAB Europe anyway! PML,, how can they get away with this?... Oh Seahorse..I have an idea re being worried a letter to CAB UK not being signed for,,why not write on envelope 'PAYMENT ENCLOSED' They'll sign for it then!!...and besides, you're not lying. There's a payment for £1 inside for the CCA ..da dahhh

[andrew1]

This is unreal...Cabot (uk) does exist, but doesn't so to speak...you all know what I mean..So you send Cabot Europe a CCA, they say it's not up to them to comply to it cos they don't ownt he debt..They don't (as they should) pass on the CCA and when you CCA CAB UK, it's getting delivered to CAB Europe anyway! PML,, how can they get away with this?... Oh Seahorse..I have an idea re being worried a letter to CAB UK not being signed for,,why not write on envelope 'PAYMENT ENCLOSED' They'll sign for it then!!...and besides, you're not lying. There's a payment for £1 inside for the CCA ..da dahhh

 

They'll pay your £1 into their account as a payment against the debt .. that's what they did with mine.... they thought I'd made a payment and processed it as such....."don't recall receiving your letter with the payment you made" - Oh no? so where did you get the account number from then? .. that's unreal. Sarah

[Seahorse]

Ah, but they (Europe) DO try to get a copy of the agreement, although they are possibly quite right in that THEY don't have to. Well, they (Europe) don't own the account now, do they? It's (UK) who owns it, and by using (Europe) as a vehicle for their business, I believe they hope to escape asny assertion that they have not complied with CCAs, SARs etc. THIS is the whole reason why I have changed the rules for them, and will ONLY correspond with (UK). If they ignore my requests, then they ARE in default/breach or whatever. I may receive replies from (Europe), or on (Europe) headed paper, but that's just them trying to be twisty again as far as I'm concerned. I want answers from (UK) as is my right.

 

Are you reading this WW????? Good. Then you know how serious I am. I will NOT be misinformed/lied to/be led up the garden path. (Delete whichever does not apply).

[andrew1]

Ah, but they (Europe) DO try to get a copy of the agreement, although they are possibly quite right in that THEY don't have to. Well, they (Europe) don't own the account now, do they? It's (UK) who owns it, and by using (Europe) as a vehicle for their business, I believe they hope to escape asny assertion that they have not complied with CCAs, SARs etc. THIS is the whole reason why I have changed the rules for them, and will ONLY correspond with (UK). If they ignore my requests, then they ARE in default/breach or whatever. I may receive replies from (Europe), or on (Europe) headed paper, but that's just them trying to be twisty again as far as I'm concerned. I want answers from (UK) as is my right.

 

Are you reading this WW????? Good. Then you know how serious I am. I will NOT be misinformed/lied to/be led up the garden path. (Delete whichever does not apply).

 

I'm beginning to feel a bit of deja vu here Seahorse, there were two quite innocent characters who came to this forum having a read around and getting a feel for what was going on, never touched or contemplated anything like we have going on here on this thread and others relating to our 'Ken-friends' - who were they? - tbern and Debt Mountain - and you seem to be enjoying what we are all enjoying - the challenge and proving that we can take them on. Cabot are just the sort of company with all the shenanigans they used to get up to who are plumb right for pulling apart and they have got one hell of a group of people on here doing just that... well done.. keep it up.

[Donel261]

Seahorse et all, have you got Willems postal address? Sorry to ask but I am writing to him from work and all my letters are at home. Is it the usual 1 Kings Hill Building.... ??

[Seahorse]

I should leave this in a permanent text file to copy and paste, the amount of times I've written it lately

 

Willem Wellinghoff

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

10 Kings Hill Avenue

Kings Hill

West Malling

Kent ME19 4LT

 

I think I know that address better than my own.

[Seahorse]

Do you think you could add a little extra to your letter? Instructions in small print, along these lines perhaps:

 

Upon completion of perusal of this document, please roll tightly, and insert. A small amount of petroleum based lubricant should be applied to the prepared document to aid passage.