North West Automobiles Blackburn Ltd - Deposit issues - couldnt get ins so cancelled before we even saw the car - dealership are saying deposit is non refundable.

[dx100uk]

when DSR was rolled into CRA 2015, was it not updated/amended, i thought it was?

[dekd123]

Ref: Post #25. Nothing signed at all. Based largely on the fact that we didn't see or speak to anyone in person other than to say to cancel the sale.

 

Redacted receipt attached.

I need to find the email that accompanied the attached receipt, I will chase my son as I only saved the receipt in our files but I do recall notes on the body of the email around forfeit of deposit....

NorthWestAutos Receipt.pdf

[BankFodder]

Thanks for the receipt. It is very useful.

In terms of the email – not a good time to start losing correspondence on this.

[BankFodder]

In terms of your overall chance of success, I rate it is extremely high – better than 90%.

When the directions questionnaire arrives, you will have an opportunity to choose mediation. It will be interesting to see whether they are prepared to mediate – but our preference on this website is that you decline mediation and you go to trial. I think it will be very useful to obtain a judgement against them which undermines the position and provides help and encouragement for other people who are facing the same difficulty with this company – and maybe with others.

However, you may prefer to try mediation in order to get your money as quickly as possible. If it went to trial then the outcome would be delayed although in our view, the victory would be very worthwhile.

You will have to decide.
We would prefer that you decline mediation

 

Also, in small claims cases litigant in person costs are not available even to the winner saving very exceptional circumstances.
There are elements to this case which make me feel that it might be worth asking the judge to make a discretionary order in relation to your litigant in person costs.
There is no downside to this but of course it would have to go to trial for this to happen.
A judge might be moved to exercise discretion on this point if they felt that the defendant had behaved unreasonably in their litigation

I would suggest very strongly that you start keeping a detailed log of all the time you have spent preparing the case including learning.

Do it retrospectively from the time you came to this forum and try to keep a good spreadsheet so that if you do ask for the judge to exercise discretion and award you litigant in person costs then you have good detailed evidence to support the figure you come up with so that the judge is reassured that it is not simply a money grab.
Litigant in person costs are currently about £18 per hour. Once again, awarded only very exceptionally in small claims cases – but it may be worth trying your luck in this case.

[BankFodder]

Of course is not certain that you will go to trial – but in any event, your time won't be wasted if you make a court familiarisation visit.

You have quite a bit of time in hand so I suggest that you make two or three visits on different days. This will help you enormously when your Big Day arrives.

Follow the court familiarisation guide link

[dekd123]

Good Morning. 

 

 

In terms of the DQ, it looks straight forward – I hope.

A - Yes to Mediation ()

B - Address

C – Yes to small claims

D – Suitability without a hearing, I presume that this is a no? That's correct

E – Location of our choice, it would be Chester. As the claimant is a private individual and the defendant is a well resourced business

E2 – Expert advice – No.

E3 – Witness? I’m not sure I do have my son’s supervisor who verbally confirmed the deposit and I did that same when we entered their premises in person to cancel? Not sure on this one. Probably not needed – although get a witness statement which we would like to see please

E4 – no noted dates that do not work for us.

I trust we must also provide a copy to the defendant at their business address. It is worthwhile sending both copies via signed for delivery?

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by BankFodder
edits in red

[BankFodder]

If it goes beyond mediation then you should get a witness statement from the supervisor.

A witness statement would take the following form:
 

Quote

my name is blah blah blah
my address is blah blah blah
my profession is blah blah blah
in respect of the claimant I perform blah blah blah role
on XXX date I was with the claimant when he blah blah blah blah, I heard blah blah blah blah

Any other details

I'm prepared to give evidence in court if necessary

Statement of truth

Signed

Date

head it up – name of County Court, case number, name of case, statement of blah blah blah for the claimant.

[dekd123]

Afternoon,

Update after some contact from NW Autos today and general.

Our DQ was posted in time via signed for to the court with a copy with proof of postage to the garage. We have not had sight of their DQ yet.

My son let a few calls from the garage go to voicemail today with a message being left along the lines of returning their call to discuss the court case. No call has been or will be returned.

Then the garage followed up with via email as attached to this update.

Thanks again.

NW Auto Email 21.09.23.pdf

Edited September 21, 2023 by dekd123
typo

[BankFodder]

Thanks for this. They are obviously worried.

Once again, your chances of success if it goes to trial are extremely high – much better than 95%.

I see that you claim interest.

Have you been put to any other expense when dealing with this. For instance, did you have to use petrol going to visit them or anything else?

 

[dekd123]

I wish I could with confidence say yes to something to try to recover but it's been time more than anything - educating myself / son with the help here but no real financial expense or outlay. The fact that the garage held the deposit was the hardest blow as it's a lot of money for my son and it delayed his purchase of a car until I could step in to loan the money and I'm not quite sure how I would quantify that.....

[BankFodder]

Okay well you are claiming interest anyway – and 8% per annum, that is pretty good.

It's up to you – but I think they are on the run – and even if they weren't, if it goes to trial I think you can be confident of victory. Not only that, they will be shown up for what they are.
Furthermore, even if it was relevant that distance selling has to be part of an organised scheme – their claim that they don't do an organised scheme is clearly a load of rubbish. Their website shows very clearly that it is a scheme.

That means that their statement of truth is unreliable at the very best and the attention of the court should be brought to it.

I can imagine that they are probably keen for this to be quietly put away so that the attention of the court is not brought to it and also that there is minimal publicity.

 

Quote

Dear Ali or Kamran Ilyas, whatever your name is,

Thank you for your email dated blah blah blah.

The answer is No.

I'm not prepared to compromise on a single penny – including interest and costs.
You haven't filed your directions questionnaire yet so you had better bear this in mind if you decide you want to go to mediation. I won't be giving any ground.

I'm telling you that now and I will tell the mediator if that's where we are going.

And of course I will also tell the judge.

And incidentally – stop phoning me please. Everything in writing.
 

Believe me

Signed

 

[BankFodder]

I've just made a slight amendment in red to my suggested letter above

[dekd123]

Possibly a bit quick off the mark as the response went before the red text edit but a reply was received as attached.

Cheers.

2nd Email NW Autos 21.9.23.pdf

[BankFodder]

Okay, please let us know if and when you get a copy of their directions questionnaire.

I suggest that if you don't get it in a week or so that you start telephoning the court to find out whether they have filed one, to ask what it says and to get a copy.

[dekd123]

Will do and thank you. I know that our date to submit the DQ was the 22nd.

DQ received today via email with a Courtesy Copy to what appears to be a legal representative.

 Email from NW Auto with DQ.pdf

I missed a page from the post above - all pages of the DQ were individual so had to combine and duplicated one page. I can't seem to edit the above.

NW Autos DQ - Received 22.9.23 via email.pdf

[BankFodder]

So do we delete both of them or just one of them

[dekd123]

Post #41 has the incorrect DQ so can be deleted. The other attachment on post 41 was the email that was received with the DQ and was uploaded only to highlight the copied in legal representative who is here -

Legal Solutions 4 U | Motor Trade Warranty Administration

WWW.LEGALSOLUTIONS4U.CO.UK

Apologies for the mishap.

Edited September 22, 2023 by dekd123

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Please update us when you get the date for the mediation.

That your son know that although they will try to bully him, he won't be talking directly to the other side. It will be a mediator who will be courteous and professional – although they may try to put a little pressure on to compromise but he should be prepared to resist that. He has right completely on his side and there's no reason why any money should be sacrificed to these people

[dekd123]

Thank you. We are trying to arrange the familiarisation court visit. The offer made by garage has motivated my son, galvanised things almost, so I think we will be preparing for his day in court.

I will keep the post updated.

[BankFodder]

I'm sure the familiarisation visit will be very useful and also quite surprising at the small claims level.

I'm sure you can get in there together for the first one and then may be on the second one it would do his confidence some good if he does one on his own.
If there are a couple of different courts within reach – then go to both to appreciate may be different layouts, different styles et cetera.