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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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CDER for PCN's on a car i sold 18mts ago - already paid £426 - now they want more for more PCN's - Help


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here are some quick facts about what happened:

• I gave this car (Audi) in part exchange for my current car (BMW) on 23rd November 2022 at 21h38.


• I have Facebook message from the other party at the time of the transaction saying "Sold as seen 23th November 21:38 - swapped bmw for Audi Tt and £350"


• I have a bank transfer as mentioned on the message above at 21:31 with reference as BMW [model + reg]


• I have proof of insurance cancellation (email) at 21:53 on the same day of the transaction


• The other party agreed verbally on making all transfers - I gave him the V5, etc.


• The new Audi owner was fined many times with the car still under my name, starting from 25/11/2022 (only 2 days after the transaction)


• After learning of the fines, I informed the DVLA about the change of ownership


• I received confirmation of transfer from DVLA on 02/02/2023



• Because the fines were issued before I contacted DVLA are still in motion,bailiffs are knocking on my door threatening to take my possession of my goods to pay off the debit


• I already had to pay £426.50 for the same reason, but can't pay any more money


• CDER is changing their version of what I need to do every time I speak to them

• Bailiff is scheduled to come within 48 hours to collect payment (which I don't have)

• This penalty charge is about a parking ticket without displaying valid voucher, etc

What can I do now to stop this urgent one and the rest?

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ignore them

they cant do anything

there is no right of forced entry on PCN's.

soon go away

you've proof you sold the car.

shame you didn't keep the v5c slip and send it off then but never mind.

you know for next time...

 

you need to go get that money back you paid..who was it too?

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I learned the hard way: I can't ignore them.

These are penalty charges from local authorities, not private parking tickets.

I had a certified enforcement agent from CDER knocking because of a £2.50 Dartford Crossing charge, and I had to pay him on the same day £426. He was rude, unhelpful and intimidating, calling me every hour to come up with payment or he would "have to come back". My wife is petrified.

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no you did not have to pay him.

you were not the owner of the car

they have zero powers of entry.

you should have and should be contacting the local authorities using the correct forms with proof of selling the car then the tickets will get cancelled.

stop falling for the all powerful bailiff tricks of the trade.

go do a chargeback and get that moneyback you DID NOT OWE!!!  

take control not be controlled by SCAMMERS!!

for a start where is the PCN and the Notice of enforcement for EVERY ticket ?? 

did you get both for each?

 

dx

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CDER for PCN's on a car i sold 18mts ago - already paid £426 - now they want more for more PCN's - Help

It makes total sense to me that I do not owe the money, but how can I prove if from now? What are the steps to take?
Today I phoned CDER again to follow up on the proof that I have and the attendant told me no matter what I do now I will not stop the enforcement agent from coming again in 2 days.

What is the first step I can take to stop it?

***edit***

Actually, just thinking about it is puzzling to me, because I believe I have reasonable proof that I sold the vehicle, but it feels like the enforcement agents will do anything they can to make you pay - even if it not ethical, moral or even 100% legal.

Edited by bringmeluck
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stop phoning stupid bailiffs..:frusty:

they couldnt careless. just out to scam you and you've already wasted £426.:frusty:

lets go frighten the mug again he coughs up nicely think we can break in and in prison him probably...:pound:

please answer my questions above.

and have you ever contact each issuing council and TfL in writing to date?

not sure where you are getting your advice from but they want SHOOTING!!

dx

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

you should have and should be contacting the local authorities using the correct forms with proof of selling the car then the tickets will get cancelled.
I contacted the DVLA back in January after learning about the penalties, then received their confirmation by post on the 02/feb that their records were updated.

stop falling for the all powerful bailiff tricks of the trade.
There's nothing I want more right now!

go do a chargeback and get that moneyback you DID NOT OWE!!!
If I do a chargeback will it not make it worse?

take control not be controlled by SCAMMERS!!
YES, PLEASE!

for a start where is the PCN and the Notice of enforcement for EVERY ticket ??
That is a good question my man, I'm sorry to say I have ignored the letters for a while :(

did you get both for each?
Can't say I did.

and have you ever contact each issuing council and TfL in writing to date?
No, only the DVLA

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well go open all the letters please!!

we need to confirm you have for each ticket.

did you receive the original PCN from the local council or charge from TfL?

and have you had a notice of enforcement from each? bailiff company (before they ever appeared at your door) stating which/all the PCN's/charges they are chasing you for ?

you MUST have been issued with each of the above for each pcn/charge before anyone can demand money from you. else everything has to be undone and refunded.

phoning the DVLA/anyone else bar TfL/local Authority was pointless.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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:cheer2:

best to get your ducks inline.

then it can be properly sorted and you might even get your money back.

in the mean time

please get the mrs to read this thread.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So I combed all the mail re this. For the sake of simplicity I will focus for the moment on the most urgent one, as the enforcement agent is meant to come visit tomorrow morning, which gives me just a few hours to do something to stop him.

Details:
Its a parking ticket for being "parked in a permit space or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit where required"
Where it happened: Cambridge Street
On 15/01/2023
At 10:15
What letters have I received: Notice to Owner, Order for Recovery of Unpaid Penalty Charge.

-----

did you receive the original PCN from the local council or charge from TfL?
Either I did not receive or I misplaced it

phoning the DVLA/anyone else bar TfL/local Authority was pointless.
According to CDER if I can get proof of transfer of ownership from DVLA confirming it happened prior to the penalty dates it can be reversed. Citizens Advice Bureau confirmed that this is a route worth following

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and ofcourse cder will tell you bullcrap that takes time and does not work. as well as useless CAB.

you need to do the relevant forms listed above and get them off to the council tec ASAP with proof you did not own the vehicle. the fact the v5c was given over without you detaching and filling in the yellow form 9 should not hurt you.

you should have done this today.

dx

 

6 hours ago, Homer67 said:

Never ever open the door to them! Make sure your car is not parked on your drive or near your house. If possible park it on someone else's private land.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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