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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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UKCPM 2*PCN's Now PAPLOC's - residential parking - Highbury Drive Leatherhead


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OK, so invest in two 2nd class stamps today and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

We could do with some help from you.

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thank you very much for your assistance so far and fingers crossed for what's coming.

Just to make sure I get it right:

1. I'll send the text with the suggested amendments exactly as it is by 2nd class with Royal Mail with receipt signature.

2. Because I will write the case ID for each recipient I won't mention anything about myself, correct? (it is obvious but trying to be extra cautious)

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

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1. Correct. No "signatures", just free proof of postage.

2. Yes, you need to quote their ref number. Just say exactly what Dave has written, nothing extra. (Don't want to give any clues away).

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all, 

Just a quick question please,

because I had two PCNs, I also received two letters from Gladstone Solicitors, one of them came earlier (deadline 26th November which was sent) and another one identical that came later with the deadline of 10th December .

Do I send the same snotty letter for the second one as well?

Technically I should send it to meet the deadline, but just in case is there anything else needs to be done?

I'll send it tomorrow as usual, 2nd class with proof of postage. Thank you. 

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yes, you must always reply to any PAPLOC

Be it a repeat for the same PCN or a new PCN when one was sent for a previous PCN.

but you always run the 30 days deadline.....

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Have a read of westridge's short thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/457529-cpm-no-windscreen-pcn-greenwich-peninsula-patrol-cutter-lane-east-greenwich-greenwich-peninsula-london-se10-0xx-on-26012023/#comments 

Like in your case, Gladstones lied about the amount of solicitors' costs in the Letter of Claim.

Westridge wrote to the Solicitors Regulation Authority who investigated Gladstones, who had to write and apologise.  Ho!  Ho!  Ho!

If you have a spare moment I suggest you do likewise, it's only an e-mail, it will annoy Gladstones, and like the snotty letter it will mark you out as a pain in the backside who it is better to leave alone.

Edited by FTMDave
Sorted out link mistake
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We could do with some help from you.

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Thank you very much FTMDave and apologies for my slow response!

Of course I will send the email now mentioning that there is evidence in the online space that GS had knowingly added a higher amount in the fixed solicitors' costs section and that I would like to submit a formal complain.

Would be fine if I print screen only the section where GS acknowledges the mistake and they say it should be 50 and 80 ?

Secondly,

I will be outside UK between tomorrow and 1st of Jan when I will return,

should I inform anyone that I will be out of the country between this period (19 Dec- 1Jan)?

I remember I came across something that I should let the solicitors know about this but I am not 100% sure.

I really appreciate your help with this.

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I see you have two LoCs, to complain to the SRA, simply attach a copy of Gladdy's first letter to you and point out that the real fixed solicitors' costs are £50 at small claims for that sum but that Gladstones have lied in their letter.

There's no need to reference westridge's thread.  Just point out the lies they have told you.

A second complaint for the second LoC can wait till you are back in the UK.  That one can be beefed up 😀

Being away from home when you're in legal dispute is always dodgy as you would not be able to defend any court claim.  Is it possible to get someone pick up your post during that period?

 

We could do with some help from you.

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4 hours ago, sandokan said:

should I inform anyone that I will be out of the country between this period (19 Dec- 1Jan)?

only ever necessary if a court claim has been raised....

thread title updated

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to UKCPM 2*PCN's Now PAPLOC's - residential parking - Highbury Drive Leatherhead

Thank you FTMDave, yes there is someone who will be here, but not me personally. that was my concern as I am the only one involved in this.

I will write now the LoC to SRA, fingers crossed :) 

dx, thank you very much, noted. 

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In the past the the PPCs have been spanked several times in court in residential parking cases, so now it is very unlikely that they will do court.

Unlikely but not impossible.  Obviously it's better to prepare too much than too little when you're in legal dispute.  In the past we've had people who lost cases by default through being abroad for extended periods and thus not knowing that court papers had turned up.

In any case from when court papers are sent out to when defendants have a deadline to act  is 19 days.  You'll only be away for 14.

Plus you have someone to look at the mail.  So relax and enjoy your break!

Edited by FTMDave
Typo

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Happy New Year good people! I hope that you all had restful and good quality time with your loved ones.

 

I sent the email to SRA where I raised my concern regarding the firm (GS) didn't acted transparently and acted with integrity (not sure this was precisely the motive) but I mentioned that costs for such claim should be GBP 50 and not GBP 80. However, SRA replied to me and I quote:

"We have previously investigated similar concerns about the firm's Letter if Claims. I had raised queries with the firm regarding these concerns. The firm explains there has been a technical error in that the incorrect number of GBP 80 has been endorsed as the estimated solicitors and confirm it should have indicated GBP 50. The firm have taken all necessary corrective action in relation to the math field in the system which generates the estimated solicitors costs.

It appears, there has been a technical error regarding the figures generated for the estimated solicitors costs. However, the firm have taken steps to correct their system to prevent similar instances arising in the future. I cannot find the firm has sent further Letter of Claims since correcting their systems. As such, I do not consider any further action is required on our part. the firm refers to the costs as estimated as if a claim is issued, the claim form would reflect the accurate figures which are being claims (I think should be been "claimed" not claims).

For the reasons given above, I cannot conclude that the firm's behaviour represents a serious failure to comply  with our standards or requirements. For that reason, we will not be investigating this matter further on this occasion and I will take steps to close my file.

I appreciate this is not the response you were seeking, but I do hope my letter has helped  explain our position and the reasons for our decision."

 

From my point of view I am not convinced about this corrective action since in the greenwich peninsula case , the LoC was sent on 27 October and mine was sent 1 month after than, on 26 Nov.

 

Any ideas/views on this please? Thank you.

 

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You could write back and ask whether when motorists are knowingly being overcharged through a glitch in the system, are they being reimbursed when they overpay. If they are not is that not fraudulent or a malpractice that should be stopped at the very least. 

I am not an expert on writing coding but it seems a comparatively quick and simple task to amend an eight to a five.

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The SRA were never going to do anything, but you will be known now by Gladstones as a real pain in the backside.  Not only have you not been frightened by their threats but you have also done your homework regarding the court system & costs and took the trouble to rattle their cage with the SRA.

Hopefully they will now leave you in peace and go and look for someone daft enough to be scared and to give in.

We could do with some help from you.

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I see Gladstones apologised to Westfield on 7 December for their "technical error" (yeah, right) after being ticked off by the SRA.

So if they do it again after 7 December it'll be obvious they've been lying to the SRA and their actions were deliberate.

We will be checking, Will & John.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 months later...

Hello beautiful people,

There has been some silence over the last two months, but I received a letter from GS about two weeks ago. I didn't posted earlier as it didn't seemed to be a court claim. This letter in short, ask me to pay as their client has the right to commence Court proceedings without further reference to myself, I wonder what that means "without reference to me" would I be informed in any way or not if they bring me to court? 

A more interesting things was that GS posted in the envelope details for another PCN that is related to another person which implicitly shared their name, address, car registration, photos etc. can be seen in the pdf attachment here. Do you see a point for me to try and inform SRA about their mistake? Might have been the intern sending letters...

 

Many thanks.

GS letters in 2024.pdf

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Just ignore Gladdy's letter.  They were definitely going to take you to court after the last one - yet here they are still faffing around.

Yes, keep the heat on them with another complaint to the SRA about sending someone else's details to you.  The SRA will do nothing but you'll flash up as bad news for Will & John and they'll know it is best to leave you in peace.

In fact why not make a third complaint?  Their first LoC contained lies about the claim form fee, and their second LoC had the same lies, so you can complain about the second one and that their assurances to correct their "technical error" haven't come to much. 

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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I recently posted a case on Iamgnome's thread that helps your residential case. i have also included this one for you just to show the other one was not a fluke.

PARKING-PRANKSTER.BLOGSPOT.COM

Link Parking entered into an agreement with Isis Cardiff Management Company Limited to control unauthorised parking at Overstone Court, Card...

 

 

.

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On 14/03/2024 at 22:26, sandokan said:

A more interesting things was that GS posted in the envelope details for another PCN that is related to another person which implicitly shared their name, address, car registration, photos etc

From the wording on their letter, it looks like the other victim is a bit of a fighter.

Just a possible suggestion to try and stir things up for GS...

Why not send the victim the paperwork you've received with a covering note explaining what's happened and refer them here to CAG for advice on making a GDPR claim?

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We could do with some help from you.

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You do have a spiteful bloody-minded nature Nick.

Something we certainly have in common!

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Posted (edited)

Thank you guys!

@lookinforinfo thank you for the case, it seem to similar with my case which is gold.

@Nicky Boy shouldn't be ICO?

 

For CAG I found this  The Confidentiality Advisory Group (CAG) is an independent body which provides expert advice on the use of confidential patient information. This includes providing advice to us, the Health Research Authority (HRA) for research uses. It also provides advice to the Secretary of State for Health for non-research uses.

Edited by sandokan
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18 minutes ago, sandokan said:

shouldn't be ICO?

Yes, but the process starts here...

https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/data-protection-complaints/what-to-expect/

This involves making a complaint to GS first before approaching ICO.

However, at the time of the complaint, I beleive we'd advise the complainant to ask for some compensation and take it from there. @FTMDave??

22 minutes ago, sandokan said:

For CAG I found this  The Confidentiality Advisory Group (CAG) is an independent body which provides expert advice on the use of confidential patient information. This includes providing advice to us, the Health Research Authority (HRA) for research uses. It also provides advice to the Secretary of State for Health for non-research uses.

No, I meant this forum, The Consumer Action Group, where you're posting right now.😄

(We're in the slow process of rebranding as The National Consumer Service.)

We could do with some help from you.

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10 hours ago, Nicky Boy said:

However, at the time of the complaint, I beleive we'd advise the complainant to ask for some compensation and take it from there. @FTMDave??

If the person does come here we would certainly advise that.

We could do with some help from you.

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