Caught using freedom pass for 10 days.

[anna1980]

Hi,

I have read everything in this forum about using someone’s freedom pass and how to appeal.

I followed your instructions and replied for letter.

 

Today I received an email from investigation and appeal team which says:

“I have again reviewed your case and whilst I note you are willing to pay our associated costs and fares avoided in this matter, there is no legal justification to allow an individual to pay costs so as to avoid a criminal record, unless you can point out the legal legislation in law that would allow this option.

 

The offence you will be charged with if we continue, will be a regulatory offence and does not require intent, therefore this conviction is not shared by TfL with the Police and would not show up on a standard DBS check. 

However if a passenger is convicted of this type of offence and was required to have an enhanced DBS check, then the conviction could possibly show up.

 

TfL consider such mitigation but are unable to pursue a policy where the impact on individuals in certain types of professions alone is taken into account in reaching a decision to prosecute. This could lead to discriminatory practises where specified professionals are not dealt with consistently with other members of the public acting in a similar manner. It is appropriate and right that an authority or employer should have to hand any information required so as to appraise a persons suitability for any given position.

 

For the reasons above, I have considered your particular circumstances balanced against the use of this pass in question and in my view I do not accept that a Warning as set out in the Transport for London enforcement policy applies in this case. I am sorry that I was unable to give you a more favourable reply.“

 

what do you think will happen now? 
Is there anything I can do ? 

[dx100uk]

can we see your grovelling letter please?

and their reply in full as a pdf?

read upload

dx

[anna1980]

Please see attached my reply and reply from officer  

 

offenc&reply.pdf

[London1990]

when did you email your letter? i emailed mine a month ago and still havent heard back

[anna1980]

I don’t understand why they saying   :

“The offence you will be charged with if we continue, will be a regulatory offence and does not require intent, therefore this conviction is not shared by TfL with the Police and would not show up on a standard DBS check. However if a passenger is convicted of this type of offence and was required to have an enhanced DBS check, then the conviction could possibly show up.” 

 

[dx100uk]

@London1990 answered on your existing thread

 

dx

 

[anna1980]

London1990  I replied to them on 20/07, I got reply 21/09/2022.

[dx100uk]

1 minute ago, anna1980 said:

I don’t understand why they saying   :

“The offence you will be charged with if we continue, will be a regulatory offence and does not require intent, therefore this conviction is not shared by TfL with the Police and would not show up on a standard DBS check.

 

However if a passenger is convicted of this type of offence and was required to have an enhanced DBS check, then the conviction could possibly show up.” 

 

 

read CAREFULLY what they are saying....

if they go no further or accept an OOC then it wont show anywhere as its a private matter between TfL and you.

 

However IF it goes to court AND you do get convicted THEN it will show, the conviction is nothing to do with TfL doing it, it would be a magistrates court conviction, thus a criminal one, for which you would get a criminal record.

 

however again, at least twice here, even if does goto court, the judge might simply fine you/tell you to pay what TfL are asking for... and not require it to be recorded. which is why you select you plead guilty and wish to appear if/when you get a summons.

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

 

dx

 

[London1990]

7 minutes ago, anna1980 said:

London1990  I replied to them on 20/07, I got reply 21/09/2022.

 

thanks for letting me know. i replied 29/7 so maybe i have another month to go

[anna1980]

It looks like they still didn’t make any decision. I have to wait and see. 
waiting is killing me 

Edited September 28, 2022 by anna1980
Text

[London1990]

Did you hear back Anna? I still haven’t

[dx100uk]

they have 6mts.

 

dx

 

[anna1980]

Nothing. I am still waiting and worrying 

[dx100uk]

as you replied end of july, i would, going by all the evidence here, have expected you to have heard back by now, as you have not, i suspect they have dropped it.

 

dx

 

[anna1980]

I wish they would drop it. I replied to them at the end on June then got an email from investigator/prosecutor on 20/09. Still waiting for answer.

[anna1980]

I got the letter today.

 

I need to appear in court on 22/12/2022 to answer the following charge. 

They checked card and informed me that I made 47 unpaid journeys which totalling £184.50 fare had been avoided.

 

I do not agree with them and luckily I have a proof that from end of May till mid June I was away on holiday and it was my mum using her own card. Obviously then amount of avoided fares will be different. 

It says in the letter that application will be made in a court for £375 contribution toward the cost of TFL.

 

[dx100uk]

Then immediately email TfL with the proof.

 

So does this still result back to 10  your 10ish uses?, removing those journeys above?

 

Dx

[anna1980]

It wasn’t 10 uses, it was 10 day go to work and back.

because it will be court case does that mean it will show on my record? 

[Ethel Street]

If the magistrates convict you then you will have a criminal record. Because the court has found you guilty of committing a crime.

 

The offence can remain on police records indefinitely but what matters is whether you have to disclose it.

 

If you get a fine then you only have to disclose it, eg to insurers, for 12 months from date of conviction. After that it is "spent" and you can legally ignore it.

 

But note that for certain jobs eg working with children, the rules are different.

 

 

[anna1980]

19 hours ago, anna1980 said:

It wasn’t 10 uses, it was 10 day go to work and back.

because it will be court case does that mean it will show on my record? 

 

To be precise  I used card only 13 times. I just checked the statement they have sent to me. I only used it on the way back from work. They count each trip £6.30 (max daily fare) 

 

19 hours ago, dx100uk said:

Then immediately email TfL with the proof.

So does this still result back to 10  your 10ish uses?, removing those journeys above?

Dx

 

It was only 13 uses by me. They added 44 more trips which my mum was using the card.

 

Luckily I can prove this.

I did sent an email with proof to the investigator.

 

I am not sure if he can change anything as letter was already sent with court date.

 

I definitely won’t accept committing 47 offence but only 13. 

[BazzaS]

It may limit the penalty by admitting the uses that were yours, and showing that the others couldn’t have been you.

 

It won’t change the fact that you’ll have a conviction though, unless you can persuade them to seek an administrative (“out of court”) settlement - which it seems they have been offering less often recently.

[dx100uk]

what letter did you send to the court?

what did you say?

 

dx

[anna1980]

I didn’t send anything to the court. 
I thought that TFL already send all my correspondence with TfL which I attached here before. Now I need to send two forms (see attachment)ACKNOWLEDGEMENT AND NOTICE OF PLEA FORM.pdf

Edited October 28, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

have you a sep list of the 47 TIC's that you have to sign each one?

 

dx