Moneybarn - faulty car, rejected, Return of goods order, car clamped illegally?? and repo just today - help

[Bambi97x]

Yes i have a copy of the judges order on paper. Ill take a photo and convert to pdf, along with the initial rejection,  removing details from both. 

 

This is the judges order. Will post the other one tomorrow off to bed. Thanks for all help so far xx

Judge order .pdf

[dx100uk]

just cross t's here 

the guy didnt have a flatbed but threatened one if you didn't hand the keys over to drive it away. that you sadly did.

now MB could argue this was thus voluntary.

 

a little reword is needed to the court letter.

 

sadly as i said before you got had blind.

i would also guess another lie was that using a flatbed would add additional costs or what was said.

shame you didnt film this with a phone.....

 

dx

 

 

 

[Bambi97x]

I filmed the telephone conversations with moneybarn this morning when they were repossessing the car on our iPad. I have some of their lies on video evidence I should expect! I also got a photo of the repo guy standing outside the car talking to my partner as he was emptying our belongings out of it.  
 

he said he’d come back with a flatbed yes. moneybarn said on the phone they’d charge us for that and if the agents had to come back - but by that point they’d already driven it away as moneybarn failed to call us back in time as promised. Yeah we have been swindled indeed however they’ve achieved that since 2019 with us so nothing new there. I will include details of their threats with the flatbed and charges this morning to court to explain why we felt we had no other option. 
 

the repo guy had a body cam filming us and has done every time he’s visited. There’s evidence there maybe of some sort as before he has been arrogant as hell, literally telling me I’m completely wrong and I know nothing etc. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Bambi97x

[dx100uk]

16 minutes ago, Bambi97x said:

he said he’d come back with a flatbed yes. moneybarn said on the phone they’d charge us for that and if the agents had to come back

urm be nice to see that. private link to it being uploaded somewhere ?? by PM only please.

 

it might also be an idea to send enviro an sar asking for all data held concerning mr&mrs xxx at adress xxxx AND any body camera footage of mr xxxx concerning said attendance at (address) that they hold back to (whatever date from 1st visit on xxxx on date time.)

 

i would also send MB an SAR asking for all data and any phone calls back to date of opening agreement.

 

the court order clearly states MB have the power to authorise via an agent to repo the car, however they have jumped early.

so the info to the judge needs work.

 

without playing forum scrabble, you have now got a report now from Matford Jaguar...??

 

 

[Bambi97x]

Good morning, working on sharing 2 videos i have of 2 seperate phonecalls, however can only find sites to send them privately via email. Happy to do this, if you pm me your details. If not, ill keep looking for a site i can use as im trying to find a free pdf converter for videos. 
Happy to share the pic here as ive crossed out the number plate, no private details are on it. 

we have a report from matford Jaguar however they included nothing on their report which actually helps us, despite us explaining the entire situation. Very frustrating, so we are now back in contact with them to see what they can do with the report we recently had done. Someone that works there knows us personally so has been trying to help however he isnt an expert technician, which is who needs to do the report. 

we have already asked MB for a SAR yesterday however this was on the phone so will follow this up in writing today & email, and post via Royal mail. Will keep photo copies of every single thing so they cant say i didnt send anything. 
will also do the same to equivo. 

i will let the judge know that they have repossessed the car via that agent 10 days before the court order says so & how this has impacted our evidence gathering on the car. If theres anything else i should specifically say or write to the court whilst reporting this, feel free to let me know! 
thanks again 

 

 

I have drafted this email to moneybarn (havent sent yet) and will also post to them directly, however im sure theres a few things ive probably written wrong. Will email it to the complaints dept. 

To whom it may concern, 

I have an ongoing dispute and claim with Moneybarn, in regards to trying to reject my vehicle back in 2019 due to it being unsatisfactory quality and unroadworthy etc.

 

My complaint reference numbers for the many I have logged with you is ; xxxxx / xxxxx and the first complaint I made to you via email on the 3/10/19 – didn’t even get given a complaint reference number.

 

This is probably because many of the complaints ive logged with you havent been logged when I actually complained. For instance, I logged ANOTHER complaint with moneybarn on the 14^th june 2022 which wasn’t bothered as being logged until the 7^th september 2022 when the financial ombudsman contacted you.

 

I think this is disgusting & unjust behaviour from yourselves, aside from extremely unprofessional as you clearly don’t take anyones complaints seriously and decide to log the complaints whenever you wish, not when they’re first reported. This puts me in a very difficult position in regards to timelines, luckily I have proof of all of my emails to you. 

After this being an ongoing battle since 2019 I attended a court hearing with yourselves on the 26/8/22. This took place on the phone, where the judge ruled a judgement of return of goods order.

 

This court order states on point 2, “The defendant shall return the goods to the claimant on or before 23.9.22 (to allow the defendant a reasonable opportunity to have the vechile and issue of concern to him examined by matford jaguar).  Claim number on the court letter is XXXXXX.

 

I have highlighted the above due to what happened yesterday morning on the 13/9/22 which im sure you’re already fully aware of. At least you should be after the two phone calls I made to you yesterday.

 

Your appointed agent, Equvio, clamped the car between 7-7:30am and then knocked on my door to tell me they had a section 92 act which enabled them to repossess the car.

 

We showed them our return of goods order, issued by the judge and court, which confused them. They had to ring and check with you, (once again, not very professional sending repo agents when they don’t know if they should be there…) who came back to tell us, you are aware of what the court order says however you feel you have the “right” to take it.

 

You referenced the part “return the goods to the claimant on or before 23/9/22” however choose to totally ignore the first part, that being “the defendant shall return the goods to the claimant” – clearly I need to remind moneybarn that the defendant is me, not you.

 

I brought this up on the phone to moneybarn yesterday morning and the point was totally argued. However it is the judge that has ruled this, not me, so moneybarn are essentially arguing with the judges ruling & decision. 

What you have done has NOT allowed me the reasonable opportunity to have the vehicle and issues investigated, as i still have tests booked in for this week, you have stolen the opportunity to me to gather evidence on the car for my case, which the judge had granted me with! 

I first called moneybarn yesterday morning at 8:15 and told you what was going on, the repossession agent was outside and had clamped the car. I was promised a call back from a woman named Elizabeth who claimed she couldn’t get back to me on this urgent matter until after 9am, because it was “management level” and she needed to talk to them.

 

I even stated on the phone it is of my opinion you will not call me back, due to my awful previous experiences with you, and I was correct. I had to call you again, at 10:09 and tell you that the car had been repossessed due to what you, moneybarn, told equivo. That you & they had the right to take the car, 10 days earlier than the judge said.

 

Once again this point was argued by the woman on the phone, and the only other thing she brought up was that we may receive fines for any possible revisits or flatbeds that equivo may come back for. Totally didn’t care about going against the judges order, ignored this point, only reminding us of fines we may face.

 

May I also remind you, that clamping by a private company, on private land is made illegal in 2012. This didn’t stop you or equivo from authorising the action anyway. I was told by the agent at equivo our only option was to hand the keys over for him to drive the car away, or a flatbed would come back and forceably take it where we would later be charged. We handed the keys over to him & he latterly drove the vehicle away. 

I requested a service access request yesterday on the phone, however im not confident this will be logged or sent to me so I am following up this in writing (email & letter) and demand for all data & information on my case, including recorded phone calls & logs to be sent to me ASAP. I would also like all of the above to be added to my ongoing complaint, all of which I am keeping evidence of. 
 

I rang the court yesterday to make them aware of what has happened and I was told based on the delivery of goods order, you cannot do what you have done. I will be complaining and bringing the information of what you have done to the court, before a judges eyes. 

I will also be calling & emailing the Financial ombudsman service to add all of this to the current ongoing complaint I have with them against you which is being investigated. 



 

[dx100uk]

i have taken away the pic, its not of any importance.

 

we too have backdoor expert advice

from a read of you thread...this is their thoughts...

 

to dx:

Very tricky one this

They have come far too late and fighting the wrong issue 

Car should have been dumped at the dealership in the first place 

 

They have used it 3 years, must have passed mots, driving it with young kids in the car (unroadworthy??)

what mileage have they done themselves?

 

You would need an independent engineer report court cpr compliant plus a WS from him (thats going to cost best part of 1 k)

someone at a local garage isn’t going to cut it and after 3 years I don’t think it’s going to help much

 

MB have had them blind I’m afraid 

 

Should have gone for a Time Order

 

3 years and not reached 1/3?

not looking good for them.....

 

Will give further thought 

 

ZZ

 

...

 

i would p'haps not be writing to mb, but simply inform the court of this latest progression.

 

more soon:

to DX:

 

Can you ask for the details of the original complaint to the FOS and the FOS reply

Also the details of their latest complaints to the FOS 

Also how many miles they have done since purchase 

 

Even if they applied to the court for the car to be returned to them pending an independent inspection 

I cannot see that they will be able to put together a feasible case that would stand scrutiny in court

 

ZZ...

 

 

 

 

 

[Bambi97x]

Sorry for the unneccesary picture, thought it may be classed as proof of some sort.

We have used for 3 years as have been lumbered and dumped with the car and we trust finance companies to follow the law, admittedly moneybarn have had us i agree however when we rejected the vehicle we expected to be able to do so, we picked the car up from Winchester which is 2 and a half hours from us so not able to just “drop it back” - plus with them already refusing to reject the car, honestly didn’t think theyd cancel the finance irregardless of whether we did this or not. This is the first finance car agreement ive ever had. 

they left us under the impression that a voluntary surrender of the vehicle wouldn’t matter as theyd still chase us for the full finance amount, even if we returned the car. This is because they refused to terminate the finance agreement or take the vehicle back as rejected. Obviously im not going to return the car and continue paying £400 a month, when i dont have it. I needed a means of transport to get to work & wouldve been £400 out of pocket, and without a car, and not able to earn any money. And obviously it goes without saying that we arent allowed to sell the car as it isnt ours. 

yes its passed mot’s because i have paid to fix every single issue with the car to make it roadworthy as they left me with NO choice, they wouldnt let me reject the vehicle.  However its mot done on the 14th september 2019 failed, but passed on the 20th September a day before we got it….. strange.

i dont understand what we have done wrong admittedly i maybe should’ve taken them to court a lot earlier on however during covid (when this was all happening) it was impossible to get through to anyone, get anything done, seeking advice was very difficult, had i of known of this forum back in 2019/2020 i wouldve joined and asked for help then, but i didn’t. Also wouldnt of ever been able to afford solicitors & court fees during covid. Have been told there is no legal aid for matters such as this.

 

Both me and my partner were newly self employed and went from 4k a month income to just under 1k universal credit, our trades were shut for longer than anyone elses during covid (one chef and one makeup artist here) and all jobs we applied for were snatched up super quick. My fiancé was also pregnant throughout covid & unable to find employment as you can imagine, no one wanted to hire a pregnant lady and put her at risk during covid. 

However we knew our rights in regards to rejecting the vehicle and tried to exercise these rights, only for it to be made impossible and literally ignored by the companies regarding this matter. They have sold us a faulty car, made us pay for repairs on it for it to be “tested” by their technicians etc, and also paid for repairs as left with no other choice had to get to work and make a living. And then hung us out to dry ever since.

 

We’ve done all we can from the advice we’ve managed to gather over the last 3 years, kept writing official complaints, spoke to the cab, reported it to the ombudsman, so we havent sat back and done nothing. We really have been fighting this as much as we can but also work 12 hour days as a chef alongside raising a family & my fiancé working also.

 

No one has ever told us about a time order or what to do in regards to that, and as you can imagine googling this finance issue brings up many thousands of different words and websites none of which i know are definitely the correct route to take! 

our main point is we have been trying to reject the vehicle since the first 1/2 weeks of having it in September 2019 and this has been made impossible and surely this is not okay. That is the only reason, along with the options moneybarn left us with, that we have kept the car. Since then many separate issues all relating to their general customer service, lack of replies, unfair treatment have arisen in the last 3 years which has caused this issue to drag on entirely. 

i will get mileage info and fos info on here asap however the first fos complaint outcome doesnt go in our favour, due to moneybarn withholding info from fos. However we have been told by fos with our new complaint that they are now unable to withhold any info, so it will all come out now im hoping. 

i have copies of the first technicians report done on the car on 21 november 2019. Is this of interest or relevance to you, if so will be happy to post it with personal info removed. 

- side note, i am writing all replies on behalf of my partner as he is also seeking as much advice as he can elsewhere alongside working 12 hour days. Thankyou 

 

Doesnt make us look good however there was so much info missing from this complaint that we had to re-open another one. I do believe my partner started his new complaint to the fos over the phone as they asked him to do it this way when he rang them. So i dont seem to have copies of what he has said to them referencing the new complaint however when we eventually get a second outcome, i will post it here. Am i able to ask them to forward me email copies of my complaints? 

 

i thoroughly stand by the fact we tried to reject the vehicle to moneybarn and car finance 24/7 (as at first we didnt know whos responsibility it was) but we did try to, to both companies, within the first 30 days. We were basically told by them both we needed to prove the faults. And we of course fit the bill for it all only to be ignored. & the technicians report is extremely contradictory it actually comes across extremely dodgy. As ive said i am happy to post that if it is of relevance. 

i also remember my partner definitely not receiving a default from them, however he did receive the termination notice. I read on another thread here that someone had the exact same thing happen to them with this with moneybarn. 
 

 

 

Only other thing i can find currently is this - our current complaints handler from the fos asked for a copy of our email to MB complaints manager so i forwarded it over to him. 
 

FOS reply.pdf 14-09-2022, 14_56 Microsoft Lens.pdf

[dx100uk]

please remember not to use/put your names. text and pdf's edited

[Bambi97x]

Just had a call from our landlord to say the parking out front isnt classed as private land which obviously doesnt work well for us however, this doesnt change the fact they have jumped early and ignored the judges order.

 

My partner is on the phone to the fos as we speak asking them for write ups of our complaints to be emailed to us so i can provide more info. The second complaint however is still being investigated. It may take a day or two to receive this info. 

in regards to the mileage; 
due to being dumped with the car and spending money on it etc as no choice as stated above, it has been used.

 

Since purchase 30,000 miles have been put on and it is definitely worth noting here that while it was in a garage having repairs the engine blew up. The garage took responsibility for this as the car was in their care at the time & an engine replacement was arranged & carried out.

 

Since the new engine another 7,000 miles have been done.

 

The new engine should change the value of the car & i need to somehow find out the car value if i am to ask the court to return the market value of the car to me however given your previous reply im not sure if i stand a chance in court with any of this now and now im not sure what to say and what not to say to the court. 

[dx100uk]

for the minute you simply inform the judge what happened the other day.

 

if by remote chance it does goto court and you do win, part of your claim will also be every penny you have spent on repairs on the car.

it is NOT YOUR CAR, you were NOT responsible for any cost of repairs outside those deemed wear and tear or std daily maintenance costs.

 

SO many people fork out £1000's for repairs on cars subject to finance that they dont even OWN ...WHY

 

you have only done 30k miles because you HAD to use the car.

had it been returned under your consumer rights , as it should have, you'd have done none.

 

 

i am wondering if MB might bite at a time order??

 

i'll let my background experts comment before i reply further

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

from our expert spy....

 

Just read the FOS reply

Problem is the OP didn’t follow up within the required time 

 

sadly banging on about the vehicle rejection 3 years later is going nowhere, in all truth No independent engineer would comment on the original condition 3 years later

 

They had the opportunity rather than contesting the ROGO to apply for a TO , but of course was never made aware.

 

An Application to the court for a TO even at this late stage may just be accepted if they offer to clear over the remaining 2 years 

It would be in everyone’s best interest if they can afford it .

 

..................

 

so thats where you stand.

get a Time Order done. that will kill the ROGO too.

offer to pay the outstanding balance in 2yrs? (till the end of the signed agreement 59mts?)

 

let the FOS run, help then all you can.

then you may get monies (compo) knocked off the outstanding if they side with you.

 

 

 

[Bambi97x]

That’s great thanks for the advice. 
 

can I ask where I stand in regards to them refusing to reject the vehicle?

 

I know I’m ‘banging on about it’ but I mean it’s against consumer rights and they did this 3 years ago which is the only reason we are stuck with it 3 years on.

 

From what I’m reading it seems they’re able to just get away with this? If so what a huge shame, and there’s not much point in having the right to reject if they can just say no Willy nilly. I’m just trying to understand: thanks 

 

will sort out a time order but once again that means we are just stuck with this car now when we NEVER EVER wanted to keep it and made them aware of that fact. 

[dx100uk]

I would get things stable 

 

Let the FOS deal with the whole right to reject issue etc 

 

I know it's not exactly what you want, but it will put MB in their box, make things stable, and then give concentration on all the outstanding issues and get them dealt with properly and with the right info 

 

Dx

[Bambi97x]

Update!! Very interesting 

moneybarn called us today to speak about our “agreement” !!!! ???? 
they have admitted fault in taking the car
their legal team have advised them to uphold everything we said regarding the judges order, essentially their legal team have said they screwed up massively! We have had a robotic apology from customer services, cannot believe it. 

at first he asked can we “prove” to them it has been booked in for tests at matford jaguar. We asked why????? You’ve taken the damn car?! He said he can “release the vehicle to us” if we can prove its been booked in for tests. Now i know we dont have to prove anything to them, they havent and didnt ONCE call or email us asking for proof of booked appointments before assigning a repo man here to take the car. and why on earth they are calling us saying this is just unbelievable.

 

On the morning of the car being repossessed, moneybarn had 2 and a half hours nearly 3 hours to triple check our account and the court order, the repo man even went to another job to give his company and moneybarn time to check it was right to take it! They came back and were very clear about taking it, and having the right to do so. 

Now, we have had a test done at jaguar….. and were going to try and have more done however; we said to them its far too little too late now, as in their words they are trying to rectify the issue and uphold the judges order. Way too late now….

 

we also do not want the car back as we are no longer insured on it, v5 isnt in partners name anymore, further appointments cancelled due to the repo, only 9 days left on the judges order to rebook appointments which are possibly now gone! Cant even legally drive the thing to any appointments now its been taken!

another line from them was “there was an error on our side with assigning the agents” …… once again admitting fault. However when we asked if they were admitting fault, directly in those words, he “couldn’t comment on that”. 

we have said we do not want the car dropped back here as

1) its too late to have this pathetic attempt at upholding the judges order NOW?!  They have already breached it!

 

2)And it does not benefit us at all to have the car back now, reinsure it, etc etc more money from our pockets all to have tests done then it be taken AGAIN in 9 days & have that humiliation happen not once but twice. 

im astounded and they definitely know they’ve landed themselves in hot water. Not sure if any of this gives us any other options or ammunition however will be updating the fos and court on all of this too. 

not sure if we have technically done the wrong thing by saying no to having the car back, however our reasons above i think are more than valid & we really do not trust moneybarns intentions at all. 

[dx100uk]

how did this turn out?

 

dx

[Bambi97x]

Hi

currently working on a solicitor who will take on the case but i cannot believe how hard it is to find one for this case - we want to bring a new case against them for everything theyve done and hopefully get rid of the remaining finance they’re chasing us for.  

 

[dx100uk]

you dont need one, unnecessary expense.

 

you can do this yourself with our help.

 

numerous similar cases here already.

 

dx

 

[Bambi97x]

Thats great news. 

what’s our first step? Totally new to this as you can imagine have never brought a case against anyone for anything before! 

[dx100uk]

p'haps @BankFodder or @theoldrouge will pop in sometime and give an overview

 

at present im a bit tied up.

 

dx

 

[BankFodder]

Sorry, I'm just a bit occupied at the moment with a possible story in the times about the courier industry on Saturday .

Come back to this as quickly as I can

 

[Bambi97x]

Thanks i appreciate all help & your time. 

[theoldrouge]

Whilst I have every sympathy with your situation (and @dx100ukand @BankFoddermay have different opinions)I cannot see how you would be successful with a claim against Moneybarn other than for very minor compensation for the breach of the judge’s order 
You clearly do not have the necessary expert evidence to support a claim due to the events happening 3 years ago and your continuing use of the car after that 
The best route for any complaint would be the FOS
How does the situation stand currently regarding MB Have they sold the vehicle and are requesting the outstanding balance?
I would very much suggest before you waste money on a solicitor that your first course of action is a SAR to Moneybarn
 

[Bambi97x]

We already put in an SAR to MB, and got a big document back with an account statement and that was it, not very helpful. We requested all possible info & recorded contact we had with MB on our account in an other SAR again. We then got another document sent to us with write ups about the case / account that had been recorded by MB (a lot of which was lacking vital info) and copies of emails between us & MB.

my best friend is a solicitor (however lives 6 hours away so dont see her in person often) and has sat down and ran through everything with us & has said we do have proof of them breaking consumer rights laws. We have literal black & white evidence of them refusing to accept the vehicle back upon requesting to return it within a week of purchasing

 

. In the contract we have with MB, it says in black and white that we do not need to give a specific reason for returning if we wish to within the correct timeframe. So thats also evidence of them breaking their own contract. This is why I feel we do have a case. Correct me if im wrong - but MB’s “opinion” as to whether the car was faulty is irrelevant. We wished to return it within the timeframe within our consumer rights and it was simply refused. 

however due to covid this has obviously been way more long and drawn out that it should have been, hence the “3 years” it has been happening for. Which we despise as much if not more than everyone else, believe me lol. And i don’t mean to sound entitled at all, but I believe allowances should be made for cases that erupted during covid when they physically could not be dealt with at the time due to the world being standstill?

 

The fos now cannot assist any further legally as it has been taken to court by MB (referencing the rogo). We pleaded and also explained that the rogo and the only reason it was in court was to simply to get the car back - nothing relating to consumer rights etc. but they stand by the fact they legally cannot assist or be involved any further. So that is now a dead end. Our case handler even said to us he was disappointed as he could see everything we were saying and wanted to “nail them” in his words - but as stated above the fos cannot legally be involved anymore. 

 

They have sold the vehicle and are requesting the outstanding balance. They aren’t being super persistent, but we have had a couple of letters. They’re also charging the fees for the recovery agents they used. No doubt we will be taken to court by them soon enough and the fact we don’t have a solicitor / or haven’t brought a case against them ourselves won’t look good to a judge 🫤

 

[theoldrouge]

I completely sympathise with your case
but I’m afraid with the continued use of the car and lack of supporting evidence 
at the moment I cannot see how you could win a case against them but 
Please post up the SAR narrative so we can gain a better understanding 
Dont worry about not having a solicitor we can work on a defence for any claim they make 

Edited January 28, 2023 by theoldrouge
Additional details

[theoldrouge]

So just to clarify imo you would be far better off defending any case MB may bring rather than attempting to lodge a case against them 
But get the SAR narrative posted up
it will really help us