Mill Motors Bedford Faulty 2nd Hand Car - Court Claim Issued **WON**

[Flowertots]

Hi, I’m after some advice.

 

I bought a car I found on Auto Trader from a “dealership” on 30 April 2022 for £2250.00, original price was £2495.00.

I checked .gov for MOT - passed 5/4/22 with no advisories.

Previous history showed serviceable items.

Advertisement said full service history

- but when I sorted out the paperwork once I got home, the car hadn't been serviced since 2018.

 

I took a friend with me and we looked over the car, though I’m not an expert (nor is she). I took the car for a test drive, the dealer was letting people drive out the shopping village, down a small lane to a industrial estate. We drove a couple of circles, got out & had a look over the car.  Car felt ok, steering felt new and there was a knocking noise which I thought was a loose exhaust bracket & the exhaust did have some paste on it, but looked ok. I decided to buy car, so negotiated a reduction of £245 to cover issue with exhaust. 

 

Once home, I asked a mechanic looked over car so it was booked in for 12th May 2022. Within the 10 days between buying car & mech checking it over, I had complied a list of things wrong - knocking noise; exhaust blowing; windscreen washers not working, speedo had stopped for 1 day; brakes juddering when braking;  steering catching/jerking - I can't get out of parking spaces on the road as it's too hard to turn; screeching when car first starts & when turning & car felt like driving a boat when going round sharp/tight corners.

 

I also doubted the validity of the MOT.

 

Once mech had checked car, he said the car shouldn’t have passed MOT as there is so much wrong

- exhaust from Cat back is corroded;

play in suspension;

oil leak on both diffs;

play in prop shaft;

brakes need proper check;

rear rear sub frame corroded

- a lot of hammerite has been used over engine.

 

I tried calling 3 times between 13 & 18th May to speak to owner/manager who was always out.

I emailed the company on 19/5 stating some of the findings & asking for a refund under Consumer Act 2015.

 

I said I doubted the validity of the MOT.

 

He asked me to send a diagnostic report or he would refund minus £150 admin fee & 40p per mile.

I responded that this wasn't acceptable & I had a right to return the car. He just responded with send diagnostic report. 

 

It’s taken 4 months to get report from my mechanic, as most of the parts are unavailable or long lead times (Kia). I emailed again on 27th July with an update saying that we were struggling to get a response from parts suppliers (Kia parts & patented parts) for a full quotation and the fact that I didn't need a diagnostic report as the car was faulty and I had raised this within the first 30 days.

 

The response I received was that I because I hadn't been in touch since 25th May (when they last emailed me) they were rejecting my claim as I said I wasn't providing them with anything. 

 

I received the report from my mechanic 05/09/22 (I advised him to give what he had and not to worry about waiting for prices etc as I'm worried about the time). I've not received a response yet. 

 

The company is not accredited to the Ombudsman so they’ll just refer me to CAB,

 

I thought Id find a consumer group who may be able to advise.

 

I am having to use the car as I have no alternative to drive, but I am only using it for essential journeys & catching lifts where I can.

I would like to know where I stand & what can I do.

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

formerly reject the car under your consumer rights wanting a full refund

you reported this within 30 days

they can't refuse

no quibble.

 

dx

 

[Flowertots]

Hi Dx,

 

Are there any formal letters I can use?

 

I've already told them via email that I have a right to my money back, but they kept insisting on a diagnostic report - which they now have. 

 

The only time they offered to refund me was with admin fee & minus 40p per mile which now would be more than what I paid for the car.

 

I know they can't do that, but I can't force their hand, so if they don't go ahead with the repair or they quibble about time etc, then is starting court action my next move?

[dx100uk]

If you bought a car outright how can it have a mileage limit?

 

Is this on finance or lease an not your car but belongs to the finance company??

 

There are 100's of threads here with letter of claim examples in but if it's not your car, not your problem 

 

Dx

[Flowertots]

HI,

 

I bought it outright & paid by debit card. They wanted bank transfer. No finance.

 

That was his terms on taking the car back, although I stated I had doubts about the validity of the MOT & mentioned some of the faults I listed above.

 

Thanks for the letter link

[dx100uk]

mileage limits....what fleecers!

 

go nail 'em under your consumer right laws

 

[Flowertots]

Hi,

 

Quick update.

 

I sent the Pre Protocol letter, haven't heard a from the trader so I'm starting my small claims.

 

A friend advised me to instruct The Sheriff as soon as (if) I win the case.

 

She was in the same situation with a different trader, took them to SC, they still didn't pay so she instructed  the HC Sheriff.

 

By the time they got to the trader, he'd gone bankrupt so she lost all her money.

 

If I do that, can I add the fees to my claim? 

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

No the HCEO add their fees to the judgement sum you attain 

 

Dx

[Flowertots]

Ok, thanks

[Flowertots]

Hi,

 

UPDATE: Sent the court docs off, Defendant asked for 14 days extension which was granted. Just heard back. He has rejected the claim and asked for mediation & I have until 12 Dec to respond. 

 

This is his defence:

 

DEAR MISS, she has been given the full opportunity to examine the vehicle and accept its condition. She has test driven/checked the vehicle carefully and was happy with it and acknowledges the issues with this vehicle and purchased it. She was aware of the issue and took the discount towards the repairs. 2.2. She called us after 3 months and she said the car had an issue. 2.3. We mill motors limited, acknowledged the issue and requested a diagnostic report, related to the issue. we never received any report that lead us to believe that she continued to use the vehicle with the issue which stands for the misuse of the vehicle and damage it further down.

 

For reference, this is the email I sent on 19th May:

I contacted your garage on Tuesday 17^th May 2022 and was asked to call back on Wednesday as you were closed. I called again yesterday (Wednesday 18^th May 2022) & spoke to a gentleman regarding the purchase of the Kia Sportage [removed-HB] on 30^th April 2022.

 

I am aware of my rights under the Consumer Act 2015.

 

I purchased the car after test driving it and checking out the car’s MOT history,  on the understanding that the knocking sound I heard when driving was an exhaust issue. We agreed a reduced priced based on this. The car was listed at £2,495.00 and I purchased it for £2,250.00.

 

When I left your dealership, the first thing I noticed was that the windscreen washers did not work. The screen was quite dirty so I had to drive home carefully. I topped this up with water, cleaned the nozzles, tried again and realised that the washer pump was not working. I started to notice other small things such as brakes not working smoothly or efficiently - the brakes were juddering; screeching when driving, steering becoming stiff then the car veering away if the wheels caught over pot holes or camber in the road.

 

I started to have grave concerns over the validity of the MOT, especially as the brakes were juddering so much, so I asked my mechanic to have a look at the car.

 

I am not happy that the car I purchased seems to be not fit for purpose. I contacted Mill Motors Limited so that I could speak to the owner / manager regarding the return of the car for a full refund.

 

I was instead asked to supply you with a quotation of the work that needs doing, which I am happy to provide and will forward it on to you as soon as I have received it.

 

However, I would be grateful if you can let me know what you are prepared to do.  

 

Reply 26/05

HI

Sorry for hearing about that, please send us a full diagnostic report. however, if you are not happy with the car we will deduct the admin fee of 150£ and the mileage that you have driven the car to 40pp miles.

 

My reply 26/05

 

Hi,

 

Thank you for responding to my email.

 

I have already outlined some of the issues below as reported to me by my mechanic.  I think it’s unfair to deduct the mileage considering I called you three weeks ago and no one was around to speak with me. It has taken me to call today and threaten to escalate this matter, for the company to return my call or respond to my email I sent last week.

 

I have had to use a car that is unroadworthy as I outlined in my email below. I also think the admin fee of £150.00 should be waived as a gesture of good will. I am not happy with the service I have received from your company, so I feel the least you could do if give me a full refund as outlined under the Consumer Act 2015.

 

Any advise on how to proceed would be great.

 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Sent the court docs off, Defendant asked for 14 days extension which was granted. All defendants gets an extra 14 days once they defend the claim Just heard back. He has rejected the claim and asked for mediation & I have until 12 Dec to respond. All defendants get offered mediation if defending the claim its part of the allocation process. Defendants cant reject a claim they can either accept it or defend it.

 

 

Andy

[Flowertots]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks. What's the best way to respond. 

[dx100uk]

file direction questionnaire n180.

agree to mediation.

 

 

 

 

[Flowertots]

Hi all, update - we have a mediation hearing/session on Friday 2nd December. 

[Flowertots]

Update, needless to say they didn't turn up for mediation. Had to get witness statements in for 23/01/23. Haven't heard / received anything from company. Trying to get hold of court for update but 1hr long wait on phone.

 

Question - My exhaust is falling off. I can't repair as the whole car is looking at £5k repairs. I can't get another without doing something with this one - either scrap or win & get my money back.

 

If I scrap, would I have to stop the small claims & therefore lose my money? I'm guessing yes, but I don't want him or the company to get off. 

 

The company only exists on paper now, although it's last accounts for Oct was £10K  - there is a new car dealership trading at the place where I bought mine. New director etc. So I'm not even sure if the bailiffs would get anything. 

 

I know you can't advise, but annoyed that these people get away with doing this again & again.

[dx100uk]

so what date did the courts direct the claimant to file their WS by?

and what date is your HEARING?

 

 

[Flowertots]

Hi,

 

I haven't heard anything since the change of courts (I requested it to be heard at my local county court) & WS letter in December after my mediation call. The Claimant never took call, so I was advised that the court had 30 weeks to do a full hearing from the date of claim which was 5th October.

 

Both of us had to file by the 23/01/23, the claimant had until the 4/1/23 to ask for an extension, but I don't think they did as I haven't heard from court yet - about receiving papers or what happens next.

 

I ticked the box to say that I was happy for the judge to reside without a hearing, hoping it may get looked at quicker.

[dx100uk]

Oops so you chose on the papers only .we never told you to do that. 

 

What date does it state the hearing takes place ?

Should be on page 2 of the ws exchange doc.

 

Dx

 

 

[Flowertots]

On the Order requesting WS (dated 19/12/22) , the only date in the sections are:

 

Section 1 - details of the court the case has been sent to

Section 2 - Send all of the documents that are relevant to your case to the court at the above address, also send them to the other side. Both parties must do this. These documents should be placed in date order and should be numbered in the bottom right hand corner. You should include the following documents if available:  A copy of the contract/agreement

 Relevant correspondence, including text messages and emails   

Final Date:  by 4pm  23/01/23

 

Section 3 - Send to the court and send to the other party your own witness statement and also witness statements from anyone who can give relevant evidence about your case. Both parties must do this. A witness statement must

 have the court case number at the top

 start with the witness’ name and address

 It must contain numbered paragraphs and should be typed and double spaced. If not typed, it must be written clearly in block capitals or printed.

 finish with the words “I believe the facts set out above to be true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.”, the date of the statement and the person’s signature. The original statement must be sent to the court and copies must be sent to the other side.

Final Date:  by 4pm 23/01/23

Section 4: Permission has not been given to rely on the evidence of an expert.

Section 5: The hearing will be at the xxx County Court and Family Court on a date that will be sent to you. Estimated time: One and half hours Unless the hearing is being heard remotely, you should come to the court at least half an hour before the listed time.

Section 6: Your case will be dealt with on the small claims track.

Section 7: A judge issued this order without a hearing. If either party wants to apply for it to be cancelled, changed or put on hold, they must do so before 4pm on 03 January 2023

 

WARNING If you do not follow these instructions within the time limits, the judge may decide that your case should be struck out, which means that you will not be able to continue to bring or defend this claim, and the other side may be able to ask the court to make a judgment against you. If you cannot comply, you should make a formal application to the court before the deadline expires, using the right form and paying the court fee.

End of Order

 

That's all the info I Have. I haven't received any thing else yet. 

 

[dx100uk]

On 08/02/2023 at 18:37, Flowertots said:

I ticked the box to say that I was happy for the judge to reside without a hearing, hoping it may get looked at quicker.

 

well that doesnt say so, its a std court hearing that says you should have attended 23/01/23

 

id ring the court if i was you?

findout what did happen.

you'll probably findout the case went ahead

the claimant turned up

you didnt and you lost by default.

 

 

[Gick]

DX I think that you will find that the WS and documents were to be submitted to the court by 4 pm on 23/1/23, not that the hearing was being held on that date.  I expect that the OP will receive a date for the hearing shortly

[dx100uk]

well spotted gick, sorry.

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

open

 

[Flowertots]

Hi,

Thank you for re-opening my thread.

I received a court order for trial which will take place on 14th September 2023. I have to pay £181 by mid August or case will be struck out & I could be liable for defendant costs.

I have decided not to proceed - I don't have the additional £181 plus costs for bailiff / sheriff if I win the case & where I am keeping the car at the moment (It's SORN) have asked me to move it as it's been sitting there too long (although I did say it could be a while) and I have no where else to park it until the court case. 

There's a part on the order that says "Warning: you must comply with the terms imposed upon you by this order: otherwise your case is liable to be struck out or some other sanction imposed. If you cannot comply you are expected to make a formal application to the court before any deadline imposed upon you expires."

I just want to check I can make a formal application to the court to withdraw & not have any sanction or costs imposed on me, if it's done in time?

Thanks

[dx100uk]

so you are prepared to lose £2250.00 but not shell out £181 filing fee? in 4 mths time -  whereby you'll win hands down? not sure why you keep going on about sheriff fees either? when you win there is a small fee to use HCEO's but that get added to the debtors bailiff bill.

 

dx