Second hand car developed a timing chain issue after 2 months of purchase - Quantum Cars Ltd will not pay

[Milka]

Hi, thanks for the help!

So I would like to ask for advices, honest suggestions..

 

I bought a second hand car in end of January. It came with full service history. After about 2 months (end of March) I started experiencing an issue with a loud rattling noise on the very first start in the morning. After driving for 1 minute, the noise is gone. After leaving the car for 8 hours at work and drive home, no noise.

 

First I called numerous BMW retailers to ask if they have information about the service stamp I see in the handbook and they had no information or whatsoever. This means the service handbook is possibly fake!!

 

I had this issue for a while until I decided to take it to a garage. Garage said it's a common issue and they have to remove the oil sump to see timing chain guides debris blocking the chain. I approved it, no plastic guides found, but the timing chain has stretched and needs replacing.

I said ok, and the bill was nearly £1200 (bmw specialist and oil sump takes about 3 hours to remove)

 

I have contacted the dealer, explained the issue and he will not pay. I said to him that the service book is probably fake and if so, the car was not serviced properly which has led the car here which I have to pay for. I also told him about the Consumer Right Act 2015 and that he needs to prove that the issue was not there when I bought the car but he does not want to pay because he says, that this issue is new and when they inspected the car and there was not timing chain issue. (everyone can say that...)

 

Please help, if I have the right to get my money back I'm not afraid to go to court.

[BankFodder]

Please can you tell us the name of the dealer.

Can you tell us more about the car – the model, make, age. Mileage.

Can you tell us exactly when you bought it and the price. How did you pay? Did you pay by cash? How far away from you is the dealer?

 

Also, although I can see that you have tried to introduce spaces into your post but maybe you could do better paragraph spacing et cetera because it makes it much easier for people using small screens such as telephones to use.

[Milka]

Dealer: Quantum Cars Ltd.

 

Car: BMW 1 Series, 116i, N43B20A engine

Year: 2009

milage: I bought it with 52.300 and now it’s on 55.000

I bought the car on 27/01/2021

price: £5300 - £3000 paid by bank transfer , £2300  paid by cash

the dealer is located about an hour from me

 

[BankFodder]

Thank you. When you say that the dealer is located an hour from you, how many miles is that

Paid by bank transfer

 

Are these the ones 

Quantum Cars Ltd | Quality Used Cars

QUANTUMCARSLTD.CO.UK

---

Quantum Cars Ltd are a used car dealer based in Leyton, London. We offer quality used cars at affordable prices.

 

 

[Milka]

Yes, that's the dealer.

 

56 miles away from me

 

 

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

First of all, I hope you have read through the links – paid by bank transfer – paid by cash. You will understand then that by paying in this way you have lost control. Did the dealer insist on being paid by cash? If you had paid by credit card or even bought the car on finance then you would have had a measure of protection from the credit card company or from the finance company.

People should never – ever – by second-hand cars for which they paid by cash or they paid by bank transfer.

Because you are within six months of the purchase, you are entitled under the consumer rights act to have a repair or a refund if the repair fails. Although you have this legal entitlement, we are finding that most second-hand car dealers ignore these statutory responsibilities and frankly in this respect I find that the consumer rights act has failed.

Despite this, you should certainly write a letter to Quantum Cars Ltd and put them on notice that under the consumer rights act, you want to give them a single opportunity to repair or else you will reject the vehicle for a full refund.
The complicated problem here is that you have bought a car with 53,000 miles on the clock and what would be interesting to know is how long one would expect a properly maintained car to run without needing a replacement timing chain. In other words, is the problem with timing chain something that you would not expect from a car of this mileage or is it absolutely normal. I suspect that it is rather early but you should do some research on the Internet to find out.

The reason I am pointing this out is because you have bought a second-hand car with 53,000 miles on the clock and although you should expect it to be of reasonable quality – satisfactory quality – you are only entitled to expect that it is of satisfactory quality given that it is a 53,000 mile car. You are not entitled to expect that it will be the same quality as a new car.

This means that you buy a car with 53,000 miles of wear on the timing chain. If we find out that a timing chain should normally last 100,000 miles, then it would be reasonable, in my view, to expect the dealer to pay half the cost of the replacement which it seems is probably about £600.
In other words, it would not be reasonable for you to expect to have a brand-new timing chain fitted when you have already agreed to purchase a car which has 53,000 miles on the clock.

Do you understand this?

So the first thing to do is write to Quantum Cars Ltd, put them on notice that you are asserting your right to reject under the consumer rights act and that you want them to put the matter right or else refund you.

Secondly, you should start looking around the Internet to find out what the reasonable life of a timing chain should be. Maybe BMW will tell you. Let us know what you find. This is very important.

Next, you say that you believe that the handbook – the service history is fake.

Are you able to discover who the previous owner was? I have to say that for a car which is 12 years old, 53,000 miles seems very low mileage indeed. Maybe somebody will visit this thread and tell us a bit about how one can discover the previous owners of the vehicle or checkup on the validity of the service history.

Do you have previous MOT certificates? Does it show where else the car has been serviced? If it does then maybe you should start contacting those garages to find out a bit more about the car, what their recorded mileage for the car was at previous MOT's.

If you do find that the service history is fake or if you do find that the mileage has been altered then we have a very different set of circumstances and we would help you get a complete refund for the car including an any expenses which you have incurred.

[BankFodder]

Having looked around the Internet, I see that the general feeling is that it is not unreasonable to need a replacement timing chain anything between 60,000 km and 100,000 km.

As your vehicle has done 53,000 miles – about 80,000 km, it may well be that your timing chain problem is within the expectations of vehicle of that age and mileage.

On that basis, it may only be reasonable to expect the dealer to contribute a proportion of the cost – and maybe no more than about 20%.

I think you need to make some enquiries to discover whether or not your suspicion that the documents are fake is well-founded.

In any event, I think you probably need to get the timing chain replaced because as it is now stretch to a point where it is making noises, at some point will fail and then you will have an extremely expensive repair which will probably mean that the car is beyond economical repair.

If you want some help approaching the dealer for a proportion of the costs then please let us know. If you find out that the documents of the mileages fake, then we can probably help you get a full refund

[Milka]

Thank you so much for your detailed answer, I very much appreciate this!! You have done some research and you are right in terms of the issue on the car. Unfortunately this is common on these engines, but it was probably there when I bought it.

 

I have already replaced the timing chain and it runs fine now.

 

I will find out the service handbook's validity and come back to you. Finding the previous owner is probably not the easiest as I don't think anyone would give out their name. Other than that, based on your answer there is nothing I can do which I will accept. 

 

Thank you again for you help.  

[Milka]

On 04/06/2021 at 07:29, BankFodder said:

If you do find that the service history is fake or if you do find that the mileage has been altered then we have a very different set of circumstances and we would help you get a complete refund for the car including an any expenses which you have incurred.

Hi again,

 

I have contacted BMW by email.

 

Attached below is the full conversation:

 jpg2pdf (3).pdf

 

Would this be enough evidence?

 

I understand that dealership hold service history log for up to 6 years, but the key reading is still there from 2011, and not from Peterborough.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Milka
adding more details

[BankFodder]

Well it is certainly looking very interesting.

Are you able to contact the Falmouth garage and find out more information?

[Milka]

I did it before, they have no other information than this.. 

[BankFodder]

Well I'm afraid that it is tenuous.

I'm not sure that I would like to issue a court claim on this basis

[Milka]

I'm not sure, to me it's really suspicious that there is no record of the car being in Peterborough. 

 

I will ask BMW again whether they would always make sure to read the key or they systematically made the same issue. Seeing 4 service records and 2 from another dealership which cannot be seen above, it looks really really odd. I'm not saying that I'm certain, but I guess only BMW can say it 100%.

 

So my action is to ask BMW and if they confirm that it cannot happen this many times then it's an evidence?

[BankFodder]

I quite agree that it's suspicious – but I don't think there's enough to bring an action. If you want to start a claim then will help you but I'm very worried about your chances.

Basically you will be claiming that the car was not as described and that it was subject to a misrepresentation. You got no real evidence that there is a misrepresentation and I'm not sure that a judge would like to go along with it unless you show something more solid.

If you were looking for a refund then to start a case like this would cost you almost £500 and another £174 the hearing fee so you are looking at nearly 700 quid which you would have to put up as your wager that you are going to win the case.