HELP REQUIRED TO RECOVER COSTS FROM LANDROVER AND LEX AUTOLEASE

[StressBall]

Apologies, in advance, for this lengthy blurb...

We have recently returned a Range Rover Evoque to the lease company - Lex Autolease. It should have been returned start of Oct 2020, but the car developed catastrophic faults making this impossible.

The car was taken on an initial 4 year lease (8k/year), but extended twice for 2 extra 6 month periods - big mistake!

End of Sep 2020, the clutch failed on the car at less than 32k miles. It was recovered to a repair centre and sat outside, pending a reply from the lease company - as it was their responsibility to pay for the clutch repair - after we emailed to complain about the clutch failure. We received an auto reply to the email, so it was received, but they never responded to us - despite several other emails and twice daily phone calls.

Fast forward to mid November, I took the decision to pay for the clutch repair, so we could get rid of the car back to the lease company, and recover the costs legally. £3006 - the flywheel had failed and
caused the clutch failure. Absolutely not fit for purpose for a modern car to have a flywheel/clutch fail at 32k miles. However, during the time the car had sat outside, in some terrible weather, and had developed a leak in the windscreen, causing a fair bit of water ingress and a huge amount of mould to form.

Several phone calls to Lex Autolease later and they kept saying they would get in touch, but to date, they have still not been in touch. They did say that fixing the windscreen was our problem, and given the constant rain we were having at the time, I had to pay for Autoglass to repair this at a cost of some £533. They have given me photos that show the window was not fitted properly in the first place. And have fixed approx 2,500 Evoque windscreens in a 6 month period - they are acutely aware of just how bad these windscreens are.

We have since complained to the BVRLA, and the Financial Ombudsman, who have both responded.

The FO are saying that Lex has 8 weeks to resolve our complaint in writing. But wasn't clear as to when this 8 week period was to start. Bearing in mind, that it has been 14-15 weeks since we first emailed them about the clutch fault - and that we had no use of the car during all this time, despite continuing to pay the rental agreement.

The BVRLA told us they had contacted Lex Autolease, and were told that the repair centre had deemed the clutch failure to be down to our driving style. They lied. They have no access to the report that we received from the repair centre who categorically state that the clutch failed due to a faulty flywheel.

I responded to the BVRLA right away - 1 days ago now - and have had no further response from them as yet.

So, my questions are these:

1... compensation for the clutch repair, refund of payments during a period where the car was unusable = these should all be repaid by the lease company - correct?

2... compensation for the repair of the windscreen, and for the replacement of a child car seat that was damaged due to mould = these should be repaid by Land Rover - correct?

Whilst we didn't rent another vehicle during the approx 3 months we had no use of the Evoque, we were severely disadvantaged as a result. Are we also due any further compensation from the Lease company for their negligence, and potential criminality, in lying about the findings of the repair centre...?

NOTE: we are based in Scotland. The vehicle was delivered AFTER 1st October 2015 (Consumer Rights Act), but the lease was signed prior to this (Consumer Credit Act).

Any advice forthcoming would be most appreciated.
 

[BankFodder]

I'm not sure that being subject or not subject to the 2015 act is at all relevant here. This problem is governed by the normal laws of contract.

Also I don't really understand why Land Rover should be at all involved here. Of course we haven't seen the contract but your contract is with the leasing company and it seems to me that all responsibilities are entirely with them as they are effectively the retailer.

Maybe you could clarify – who is BVRLA?

[Manxman in exile]

If the car was due back to LEX at the beginning of October, and it had been at "a repair centre" since the end of September, why didn't LEX just collect it from the repair centre when it was due?  Then the clutch would have been their problem - as you say, a non-faulty clutch should not fail after 32K.

 

Or are you saying that you extended the lease after the clutch went?  (Surely not... ) Sorry but without a timeline and some clarity from you it's difficult to follow what has happened.

 

Why wait until mid-November to try to sort out?

 

Too late this time, but my understanding is that Range Rovers and Evoques have an appalling record for unreliability and are very expensive when they invariably go wrong.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Manxman in exile

[StressBall]

Hey Bank Fodder - thanks for the response...

The BVRLA are the governing body for vehicle rental and leasing.

I do think you are right re: the lease company being responsible, but their argument - on the telephone only - they've never responded once in writing or replied to our emails - is that the vehicle is out of warranty. My response is that a modern car, that is only 5 years old, should not have a leaking window - especially when I can prove with photos that it wasn't bonded properly in the first place, and there is a ton of anecdotal evidence in Evoque forums of many owners having had the same faults - both with the leaking windscreen and the flywheel/clutch issue.

 

The fact that Lex have told the the BVRLA that the clutch failed due to driving style is infuriating - they cannot know that without having inspected the vehicle. But, when our repair centre did the clutch repair they found the flywheel had failed and shredded the clutch - clear parts failure, and at only 32k miles - not fit for purpose.

Problem, is Lex are not listening or engaging with us.

In total, for 3 months refund of payments, for when we had no use of the car, plus the clutch repair and leaking window repair, and the replacement car seat (plus any additional compensation we may be due) it comes to about £4850. In Scotland we would have to use something called a Simple Procedure - effectively the modern equivalent of the Small Claims Court. But I am not sure we will get anywhere with this either.

So, I am looking for advice on how best to sort this out, and perhaps, the best way to word any correspondence/claim.

 

[StressBall]

Manxman,

clutch failed 26th October. I emailed Landrover about this, informing them that I would pay for an independent inspection, and giving them the opportunity to collect the vehicle and repair using their people. A week later = no reply.

I spoke with a lawyer who said it was the lease company I had to deal with, so emailed Lex on 6th October.
I told them the same thing - I would pay for an independent inspection to prove it was a parts failure, and that they would have to put right the failure and reimburse the inspection fee. Otherwise, had I let them do this themselves I couldn't trust them not to lie - as we have now seen, in writing, from the blatant lies they have told the BVRLA - and are, presumably, going to tell the same to the Financial Ombudsman.

As the car was due to go back on the 8th October, I didn't want to pay out a fortune to fix the clutch, without some 'buy in' from the lease company, but after several weeks of chasing them and getting absolutely no response, I took it upon myself to pay to fix the clutch, hoping they would see sense and we could resolve this.

It was at this time I raised complaints with the BVRLA and the FO - the FO having recently emailed us to say they have informed Lex of the complaint and that they have 8 weeks to respond in writing.

The BVRLA told us they cannot uphold the complaint as Lex told them the clutch failure was due to our driving style - having been informed of this by the repair centre. THAT WAS A LIE. They didn't have the vehicle. And they didn't know who our repair centre was, and that repair centre told us, and wrote on the invoice, that it was due to parts failure.

As for the windscreen, it had been crapping down with rain for weeks, so I had to fix this prior to them collection it. Had it have been in the summer, I simply would not have bothered. But I feel I am entitled to the refund for this too, as I have photos from the Autoglass guy that shows the window was never bonded correctly in the first place.

Not sure whether I should raise the Simple Procedure now, or wait for the 8 weeks to see if Lex will be in touch. They are in breach of contract already by not responding to certain timescales. And I am certain they will screw this up too...

Thoughts?

[BankFodder]

First of all, you been here for some time – and I would have hoped that you are fully familiar with our customer services guide so that when you make telephone calls, you are protecting yourself by recording them. Have I got it wrong?

I don't really know much about leasing arrangements but I thought basically is a car rental and on that basis I would have thought that you are entitled to have a car in good condition and that they were responsible for its maintenance. For £8000 a year I would expect at least that. Do I have that wrong?

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

I'm not sure that being subject or not subject to the 2015 act is at all relevant here. This problem is governed by the normal laws of contract.

Also I don't really understand why Land Rover should be at all involved here. Of course we haven't seen the contract but your contract is with the leasing company and it seems to me that all responsibilities are entirely with them as they are effectively the retailer.

Maybe you could clarify – who is BVRLA?

 

 

its a lease car...you shouldn't have to pay a penny to maintain it other than std routine day to day stuff a motorist would normally do .

 

 

[StressBall]

BankFodder,

 

I didn't record calls, because they were simply me asking to speak to the complaints handler, and being told he will call back. Twice a day - and phone records will show this. If push comes to shove a FOI request for their call records will back this up.

When you lease a car, you can take it with or without servicing - our broker advised not to take servicing.
It was out of warranty after 3 years. But my argument is the lease was for 4 years/32K miles - although we extended if for an extra year, it was still within the mileage, and the clutch failed and the windscreen leaked. In my opinion it wasn't fit for purpose and the lease company are in breach of contract by leasing a vehicle as such.

 

[StressBall]

DX - the lease agreement does state that the car has to be handed back in a drivable condition etc. SO I was forced to pay for the clutch repair to allow this to happen. It was a frozen morning when the girl turned up for the car - had I known this I wouldn't have repaired the windscreen, but when it was booked it was raining for days...

[BankFodder]

I certainly tend to agree with you that the leasing agreement should at least require that the car is in satisfactory condition and remains that way for a reasonable period of time – based on the expectation of a reasonable consumer. Very much like the requirement of satisfactory quality for a sales contract.
Of course we haven't seen the terms and conditions and it may be that there is something which excludes this. It would not be excludable in a sales contract but it may certainly be excludable in a rental agreement – although I doubt it.

On the basis of what you say in that case, it's a question of accumulating all the possible evidence and then bringing an action for breach of contract.
I think you should be careful about assembling your evidence – do it methodically and may be you can post up a link here to the terms and conditions – or specifically the terms which deal with this situation.

In terms of being confident that they will be prepared to provide all of the telephone records – even if it incriminate's them, I find it very comforting to find that there are people who still believe this kind of thing. Bless.

[dx100uk]

42 minutes ago, StressBall said:

SO I was forced to pay for the clutch repair to allow this to happen

 

No you were not. it was not your responsibility to pay. You agreed to service the car. It failed despite having been serviced correctly, because the gearbox was poorly made, not your problem!

 

you should not have paid for that, not your bag, but are now going to have one hell of a fight to get that back from the owner.

 

shame you didn't come here for advice then.

[Manxman in exile]

For future reference, I think I would have simply made the car available to them for collection on the due date.  If it was undrivable because the clutch was shot after 32k miles I'd have let them sort it out and if they wanted to claim the repair costs back from me I'd have said "See you in court".  [EDIT:  Cross-posted with dx - he's right...]

 

Also for future reference, if you had somebody advising you to lease an Evoque without covering service charges - when you could have done -  I'd think twice before using them again, and if I did decide to use them again I'd think a third time.

 

Also you said you've not had use of the car for 14 - 15 weeks but have continued to pay for it.  Why pay for a car when the lease has ended and it's undrivable anyway?  Is this because you made the mistake of not ensuring they had it back at the start of October?

Edited January 15, 2021 by Manxman in exile

[BankFodder]

I think now is the time to assemble a list of all the losses which have been incurred as a result of this.

So were talking about the wasted money on the lease, the cost of repairs – and any ancillary expenses associated with alternative transport.

Of course it would be a prudent thing to just double check the terms and conditions so that we don't end up with egg on our faces.

But if everything pans out then the chances of success, if you decide to make a County Court claim, are extremely high