Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[rogerebaker]

I managed to get myself a parking ticket for staying slightly longer than the permitted free 1 hour yesterday.

 

Having read the comments in this thread it appears that it may be invalid.

 

No date of issue other than on the payment slip.

 

No Colour of vehicle

 

The time my vehicle was first spotted is also not recorded on the ticket. I would have thought this was vital as I was allowed 1 hour free.

 

Is it worth appealing ?

 

Should I pay the 30 quid fine within the 14 days but state that it is without any addmission of guilt. I dont want the ticket to double.

[rogerebaker]

It was street parking with one hour free

[rogerebaker]

Good point about the payment appeal letter ready to be posted tomorrow.

 

I would place a scanned copy on the thread if I could work out how to do it

 

any ideas

[rogerebaker]

Re post 70:

I got a reply from Elmbridge council today as a result of my informal appeal. They completely ignored my observations about the date of issue and the colour of the car not being on the ticket. basically go away and stop being a nuisance.

 

I have therefor written to the Chief Exec of the council pointing out that should he continue to ignore me and perhaps more seriously continue to issue wrongly worded tickets he could render the council liable to paying back huge sums of money and as Im a rate payer this is of great concern to me.

 

I also suggested that he makes a phone call to the Chief exec at Blackpool, Bury or Sunderland if he didnt believe me.

 

I enclosed a copy of the NPAS circular and a copy of the judgement in Wandsworth V Als Bar for his light reading.

 

Hopefully that will do the trick.

[rogerebaker]

Another ticket received by errant offspring. this poses a slightly different argument.

 

I cant scan it but I will explain it as best possible.

 

It has no Date of Issue on the top but other than that appears to comply but at the bottom of the ticket and still on the ticket itself it explains the procedure for paying ie. " You are therefor required......." and finishes " within 14 days of the date of issue" it then has a computerised date 21.6.2006.

 

What do you think about this. I have read alot about the date of issue argument. The prejudice to the motorist appears to occur if there is no date of issue on the ticket as it is not clear when the time limit for paying starts. In this case allthough they have not clearly stated the date of issue at the top of the ticket as the model suggests they have put it in the details of how to pay part which is clearly still part of the ticket. This may mean they have removed the ambiguity about when the 14 days and 28 days start.

 

I would value anyone thoughts.

[rogerebaker]

On the top of the ticket it should mention the council responsible. If its issued by or on behalf of the council then it has to comply with S66 RTA 1991. If it is issued by a private company in a private car park, and this sometimes will include shopping centre car parks, hospital car parks, etc etc then its a completely different set of rules.

 

1st step. have a look for the mention of the council

[rogerebaker]

Post 67 and related

 

I have been corrresponding with Elmbridge Council for 2 months and they are treating me like a complete idiot. Their PCN dosnt comply with the RTA in about 5 areas. I received a notice to owner which is even worse. I am looking forward to an appearance at the appeal ajudicators although I suspect at some stage they are going to have to listen and cancel it.

 

A ticket I received from Woking council is just the same. The Notice to owner and the charge certificate are also invalid.

 

Neil herons website is well worth a read if your serious about challanging the tickets

 

useful links

 

Als bar V Wandsworth council ( Date of issue argument and wording of ticket)

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/Als.pdf

 

Neil herons site

Neil Herron

 

NPAS circular informing all councils in April 2005 about the date of issue argument and advising them to change their tickets

http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/about/circulars/Wording%20of%20PCN.pdf

 

 

This is a bit like bank charges you cant lose !!!

[rogerebaker]

Good point They could issue another NTO.

 

Issuing another valid NTO would mean they would have to admit they were wrong in the first place

 

I think its more likely hell will freeze over but you never know.

[rogerebaker]

Hi - how do i go about doing that and where can I find more information about the DoT model ticket.

 

I know theres probably somewhere that already gives this information but I am new to this site and was originally looking into claiming back bank charges - there is just so much to read.

 

 

Try http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_027631.pdf

 

But before you start on this try and read all information on this thread and the links trust me it is worth it if you want to save money on PCNs

[rogerebaker]

Have a good look at the wording as well particularly around the how to pay and the wording around sending the notice to owner on the reverse.

 

If you look at the judgement of Als bar V Wandsworth (link in previous post) It goes into great detail on this point and the ajudicator in this case found that the ticket was not valid as a result. Its about 20 pages but its worth reading it in detail. When I looked at a ticket I had received there must have been half a dozen errors all of which the ajudicator in that case said rendered the ticket invalid.

 

So even if the date of issue is on the tickets theres still likely to be other errors.

 

The next area for salvation appears to be the notice to Owner. I received one of those and it was about as non complient with the Road Traffic Act as could be possible. If someone in the council had set about designing a NTO that didnt comply in any way they managed to succeed in Elmbridge.

 

One of the councils has asked for a high court review of an ajudicators decision around non complient tickets which is due to be heard on the 1st August.

 

If the council lose it could be curtains for just about every council in the country. Millions claiming back for parking tickets they should never have paid.

[rogerebaker]

Sorry for being such a pain. On the back of the ticket it gives instruction for payment, which says within 28 days of the 'date of issue'. Because mine doesn't actually say date of issue, just date, is the ticket still invalid? :?

 

Edit: Also noticed that there is no contravention code on my ticket. Have I read the link correct, does there need to be a code? All there is is the description ie. parked after expiry of paid for time.

 

Read this its a bit long but the answer to all your questions are in here

 

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/Als.pdf

[rogerebaker]

The high court today ruled against Barnet council in the case of Moses V Barnet.

 

The end result is that if the ticket has no date on it which states "Date of Issue" it is unenforcable.

 

As it was the high court this is now a precident.

 

Get your old parking tickets out folks - time to get your money back.

[rogerebaker]

Mine to

 

Ive been exchanging letters with Elmbridge and Woking council on this issue for the last couple of months and they have been treateing me like some sort of idiot.

 

I can feel a couple more letters coming on tomorrow

 

;)

[rogerebaker]

The wording 'Date of Issue' as against 'Date of Notice' still confuses me. The act mentions date of notice in its wording, but I've been told that 'Date of Notice' on the ticket makes it invalid. Mine has Date of Notice specified, and mentioned twice later in the payment section (i.e. '...beginning with the date of this notice'). It doesn't state 'Date of Contravention' as such, but 'Was seen in' [ROAD] 'On' [DATE].

 

I think you would struggle on the issue / notice bit but have a good look at the terms of payment etc on the rear. I found at least three mistakes on that.

 

When the Notice to owner came it was way out as well. The time started from the date of the notice instead of the date notice served which the ajudicators have decided renders it useless

 

The charge certificate was the same.

 

Im sure you will find something wrong with it.

 

REB

[rogerebaker]

hi to all

 

does anyone have a copy of the DoT parking ticket model, as i cant find it anywhere (been googleing it), also how to i add a photo so i can show a ticket i have recieved.

 

Do local authorities have to pursue you for the fine within a time limit

as a ticket was issued on 26th jan but they wrote to me on 11th may

 

thanks in advance

 

No time limit on serving an NTO but anything over 6 months without a good excuse is deemed as prejudicing the motorist and is likely to be kicked out on appeal.

 

The template ticket is on this link.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_027631.pdf

 

Its worth bearing in mind that the template ticket dosnt comly with the RTA especially around the wording on the rear around payment allthough the ajudicators have said that if it follows exactly the template ticket it is likely to be OK

The best web site to read is this one.

London Motorists Action Group - Westminster PCN vulnerability adjudication victory

It has all the test cases and if you spend half an hour reading the cases Im sure you will find a fault with the NTO. I have on everyone so far particularly when the 28 days starts. It must say from date NTO served and not from date of the NTO.

 

Good luck

[rogerebaker]

Taff

 

I think you have a slightly different ticket here. This hasnt been issued under the decriminilased parking scheme brought in by the 1991 Road traffic Act. In saying that I cant see that the issues are any different.

 

No date of issue

 

The liability to pay the excess charge is not with the driver but with the registered keeper provided the rules are the same for this as the 1991 PCNs. therefor the information on your ticket is incorrect

 

Your only formal right of appeal on this ticket may be a magistrates court case.

[rogerebaker]

Complete success against Woking Council re their PCNs

 

Cancelled after informal representations due to no date of issue and misrepresenting who is liable to pay on the rear.

 

Only another 4 PCNs to go

[rogerebaker]

2nd one cancelled today

 

Only 3 more to go

 

:) :)

[rogerebaker]

Is it issued by the council under the 1991 Road Traffic Act or by the Police. Yellow lines are usually the police or traffic wardens and its a different Act of parliament

[rogerebaker]

You need to lots of reading thru this thread which has all the info but in essence as a result of the recent high court case Barnet V Moses the PCN has got to have 2 dates

 

The date of issue / notice and the date of contravention.

 

If it dosnt then it is completely unenforcable.

 

even if it did have both of these theres about half a dozen other pit falls for the council to fall into which they seem to do regularly.

 

If there is only one date make representations to the council referring to the above case.

 

They will have to cancel it

 

Which council is it ?

[rogerebaker]

bristol city council, it only says date of notice on it, not issue anywhere!

 

Be a bit careful

 

If it states date of notice and also has a date of contravention the fact that it states date of notice instead of date of issue may not be so clear cut.

 

The main issue is it has got to have two dates one must be the date of notice / issue

 

the other the date of contravention

[rogerebaker]

There one or two on the site reclaiming PCN paid. I think you can only go back 6 years due to statute of limitations.

 

have a look at this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/30762-beboii-reclaiming-his-parking.html

 

personally I wouldnt hesitate to try and reclaim old tickets and any associated costs. I dont think they have a leg to stand on but its a bit untested at the moment.

 

Lets be honest if it kept in the small claims court your liability to costs is limited so you havnt got alot to lose.

[rogerebaker]

secondly

 

I would go for the council not the debt collectors

 

They are the ones at fault

[rogerebaker]

Hi roger it doesnt have a date of contravention on it

just says under the wardens signature, quote who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occurred

 

Does it say at the top of the ticket something about the 1991 Road Traffic Act

[rogerebaker]

Is it still unlawful?

 

Most certainly is.

 

More unenforcable than unlawfull but same result

 

You cant really lose on appeal especially after the moses case

 

Good luck