Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[seylectric]

Hard to say but it sounds as though the ticket might be unlawful if it doesn't show the Date of Contravention.

 

I know there's a lot of it, but read the thread, lots of info in here and it's cheaper than paying up!

[KZmarketing]

hello all this is my first post, and the forum has been really helpful.

 

i was hoping someone could help me with my particular pcn problem.

 

i was parked on a single yellow line in luton and went into a takeaway to collect my food order.

 

as i collected the order i saw a traffic warden WALKING up to my car as i pulled away the warden lifted my windscreen wiper and stuck the pcn with out actually placing it in the plastic wallet (if this helps my case). i also noticed that the pcn was not even fully printed before the warden attached it to my wiper as the bottom 1/5th of the pcn was not even printed properly.

 

do i have a chance

[KZmarketing]

i just got a piece of paper demanding £170 (£85 if paid within 14 days) which had been issued by a company called UK parking control ltd.

 

according to the letter i entered a 'clients private property' and was parked there for 40 minutes. apparently the following terms and conditions were 'clearly placed at the entrance of the car park, and prominent places within the car park' (which in need to go back to the car park and check):

 

PARKING CONDITIONS

ENTRANCE FEE £170 (£85 IF PAID WITHIN 14 DAYS)

you agree to be bound by these terms and conditions when you enter this private car park for any reason. (i.e. your vehicle is parked or stationary, or are delivering/collecting or you have broken down) you agree to pay the sum of £170 (£85 if paid within 14 days) to the UK parking control ltd.

 

i find this......cant think of the word.....

 

what should be done???

[madder]

So what is it ????? An ENTRANCE FEE OR A PARKING TICKET ??????

 

What if someone drives in by mistake ( lost) and then turns around and drives out?????

What if you drive in and then discover you have the wrong address ? and then drive out ?

 

What if you were on foot ????

 

I think I would insist on what they are charging you for???

[JonCris]

KZ take a camera

[rogerebaker]

i just got a piece of paper demanding £170 (£85 if paid within 14 days) which had been issued by a company called UK parking control ltd.

 

according to the letter i entered a 'clients private property' and was parked there for 40 minutes. apparently the following terms and conditions were 'clearly placed at the entrance of the car park, and prominent places within the car park' (which in need to go back to the car park and check):

 

PARKING CONDITIONS

ENTRANCE FEE £170 (£85 IF PAID WITHIN 14 DAYS)

you agree to be bound by these terms and conditions when you enter this private car park for any reason. (i.e. your vehicle is parked or stationary, or are delivering/collecting or you have broken down) you agree to pay the sum of £170 (£85 if paid within 14 days) to the UK parking control ltd.

 

i find this......cant think of the word.....

 

 

what should be done???

 

 

Have a good look thru this thread its got lots on private parking tickets.

 

In essence the so called contract is with the driver. As they can only find out who the registered keeper is thru DVLA and you have no obligation to tell them who was driving they can not do a thing. They will send you a NTO reply saying you were not driving and have no liability. They will threaten you with all sorts but they are empty threats. There is absolutely nothing they can do. If they want to take you to county court to recover the debt they have got to proved you were driving. They cant.

[rogerebaker]

hello all this is my first post, and the forum has been really helpful.

 

i was hoping someone could help me with my particular pcn problem.

 

i was parked on a single yellow line in luton and went into a takeaway to collect my food order.

 

as i collected the order i saw a traffic warden WALKING up to my car as i pulled away the warden lifted my windscreen wiper and stuck the pcn with out actually placing it in the plastic wallet (if this helps my case). i also noticed that the pcn was not even fully printed before the warden attached it to my wiper as the bottom 1/5th of the pcn was not even printed properly.

 

do i have a chance

 

Yes. Informally appeal first, which will probably be turned down, Then appeal again when the NTO comes,

that will probably be turned down

 

Then appeal to the ajudicators.

 

If the tickets is only half filled out theres no way it can comply with the RTA 1991.

 

Its also fairly dubious whether they have actually served it properly. It has to be either given to you or attached to your vehicle.

[KZmarketing]

its an entrance fee

 

although the person whom apparently "parked on our clients private property" is different to the owner of the car.

 

therefore the person who the PCN is issued to according to the piece of paper is different to the person that may have actually parked on the private property. ROGEREBAKER

 

i also paid a visit to the address where the "patrol recorded your vehicle".

the terms and conditions i posted yesterday WERE NOT placed clearly as they should have been according to the piece of paper i recieved from the company.

 

the pcn states that the T&Cs were clearly placed at the entrance of the car park......as long as i have not parked past the T&C's the PCN should not be valid right?

[KZmarketing]

Madder i have no idea......i mean if people accidently turn into the car park, the apparently " Agreed to be bound by these terms and conditions"

 

NO I HAVE NOT AGREED

 

JonCris good idea im going with the camera now

[rogerebaker]

its an entrance fee

 

although the person whom apparently "parked on our clients private property" is different to the owner of the car.

 

therefore the person who the PCN is issued to according to the piece of paper is different to the person that may have actually parked on the private property. ROGEREBAKER

 

i also paid a visit to the address where the "patrol recorded your vehicle".

the terms and conditions i posted yesterday WERE NOT placed clearly as they should have been according to the piece of paper i recieved from the company.

 

the pcn states that the T&Cs were clearly placed at the entrance of the car park......as long as i have not parked past the T&C's the PCN should not be valid right?

 

KZ. This is not about whether the PCN is valid it is a private company so non of the Road traffic Act applies. If you do nothing you will get a letter from this company demanding the money. They will then threaten you with all sorts but there is nothing they can legally do. The alleged contract is with the driver not the registered owner so unless you tell them you were driving theres no way they can prove it. The only way they can legally try and enforce this is through a county court and then only if they can identify the driver. Which they cant.

 

When you get the Notice to owner from this company come back on the site and someone will advice you on what to do. Be aware that they will threaten you with collection firms, courts etc etc but they are empty threats.

[seylectric]

Good post. Basically they are "pretending" that they have a legal right to impose a parking (or whatever) fine on you. They don't. End of. They do not have a legal right in law to issue "Penalty Charge Notices" and they can't and won't take you to court because they don't have anything to take you to court for!

 

The adjudication service has nothing to do with it whatsoever - there is nothing to appeal! It is no more legal than you or I placing a notice on our gate post stating "£10 fee for walking up my driveway to my door". It's absolute nonsense. They should be locked up for fraud. Tell them to get stuffed, and tell them why.

 

Incidentally the practise of putting tickets behind wipers was stopped by traffic wardens because people were "getting their own back", if you like, by claiming criminal damage/repair bills after their wipers had apparently been damaged.

 

Check your wipers carefully just in case.

[seylectric]

By the way there are laws covering "Terms and Conditions" too. They cannot simply impose them on you simply by saying "you agree to be bound by these terms and conditions when you enter this private car park..."

 

Complete and utter twaddle. You have a certain number of days to look over any contract before the T&C's can take effect, and you have to have agreed to it, usually by signing for it.

 

This isn't worth the paper it is written on, an equivalent few sheets of Andrex would probably be more valuable.

[KZmarketing]

yeah i mean the funny thing is they've sent me photographic evidence of me driving into a side road which had no signs or notices placed about any T&C's what so ever. althought they said they have photographic evidence of me parked!!!!!.....

 

although i did park on the side road (which they have no photographic eveidence of as well no notices warning people not to park)

 

they have sent me 2 photos one entering the side road leading to the car park and one photo driving out of the side road......no photos of me actually parked, leaving or entering the car park at all.

 

i cant imagine how many people they have wripped off with this dodgy [problem] because thats what this is.

[seylectric]

A [problem] is exactly what it is, this is just a blatant rip off based on the premise that "if the council can get away with it then so can we".

 

I do think that if you are parked on private land then the owners technically have the right to charge you what they like, but how they enforce that charge is another matter altogether and the chances are that if there was no prior notification they would be laughed out of court anyway.

 

I would make it clear to them in writing that you know it's a [problem] and invite them to either write it off or face being reported to the relevant authorities for fraud.

[JonCris]

Or you could add up what it's cost you todate, telephone, letters, return visits etc send them a bill demand imeadiate payment then an LBA if they don't pay within 14 days

[seylectric]

Yes, that's exactly what I intend to do once my illegal Blackpool parking tickets are finally quashed.

 

My bill will include a lost day's wages when bailiffs letters have told me they will be coming back on (date) and then not turning up when I stayed at home and waited in for them. I would love to have the financial clout to take them on for compensation for the stress and harrassment they have caused, such as a letter stating that I had not complied with the Walking Possession Agreement (they never was one) stating that they will call on (date) "with a locksmith and the police". Also for continually threatening to take my car even though they knew they had no legal right to do so.

 

The point is, how many people have had their cars illegally taken and sold at auction by bailiffs who had no legal right to take the car for dozens of potential reasons, e.g.

 

1. The parking ticket was illegal in the first place

2. The car is on H.P.

3. The car is for business use

etc, etc,

 

A friend of mine recently had his car towed away by bailiffs for non-payment on an (illegal) parking ticket issued by Blackpool Council. It cost him a 100 mile round trip and over £400 to get his car back. I have told him to claim and to sue the arse off the council but he is one of the majority in this country who put up and pay up, and can't be bothered with the aggravation of fighting back.

 

I don't get it. Why do the majority of the public just pay up? The apathy in this country is staggering sometimes.

[JonCris]

I agree

 

They general public put up with anything. Talk about dumbing down I despair I really do.

[seylectric]

What I don't understand is everone moans about it but doesn't want to rock the boat. Why????

 

I don't agree with parking charges full stop. We pay more than most of the rest of the world for our motoring, the Road Fund Licence (car tax disc) is supposed to pay for the upkeep of the roads BY LAW yet only a fraction of it is actually spent on the roads.

 

We pay the highest fuel prices, the highest insurance rates, you know the script, but then we have to pay to STOP! They're our roads, we have already paid for them! Why should we have to pay to park?

 

The whole system is an absolute farce, you couldn't make it up - you don't have to! You wouldn't mind so much if they put their ill-gotten gains to good use, but no chance of that, they are like kids in a candy store on pocket money day.

[KZmarketing]

ok i have recieved a letter from the company about the entrance fee/ PCN.

 

its says:

 

as the current DVLA registered owner/keeper of the above stated vehicle you are liable to pay any any charges regarding this vehicle.

as we hold photographic evidence of the violation on file, we are not required to place a PCN on your vehicle at the time of parking. the PCN was issued legally and correctly in accordance with the prominently displayed terms and conditions. The parking limit is in place to deter those who park for extended periods of time.

in response to your representations, and as a gesture of goodwill we will accept the reduced charge of £85 if recieved by us within 7 days of the date of this letter, after which point we will require the full amount £170.

they have photographs yes, but none of me driving pass the terms and conditions, parked or even stationary.

[seylectric]

Yes, and for LEGAL parking tickets, i.e. those issued by police or council traffic wardens I seem to remember reading somewhere that the ticket must be either placed on the windscreen or handed to the driver.

 

I would ask them to specifically quote precisely which law allows them to do what they are doing - obviously they won't be able to because there isn't one - but to be honest I would probably just throw this in the bin, there's nothing they can do.

[Roen]

Sorry to butt in on your conversation but I have tried reading all 19 (!) pages of this thread and have give up trying to find an answer. Could you guys' help?

 

I recieved a penalty charge noice today for parking in a bay without displaying a valid ticket/voucher. I had parked, walked 2 metres to the ATM withdrew £10, ran 100m down the road to get change and ran back shouting NO, No, No to the parking warden who was ticketing my car. I explained that I went to get change and he saw that I was running but he said "sorry it's done".

 

My question is : Do they not have to allow you a resonable time to get a ticket in the first place?

[seylectric]

Sorry to butt in on your conversation but I have tried reading all 19 (!) pages of this thread and have give up trying to find an answer. Could you guys' help?

 

I recieved a penalty charge noice today for parking in a bay without displaying a valid ticket/voucher. I had parked, walked 2 metres to the ATM withdrew £10, ran 100m down the road to get change and ran back shouting NO, No, No to the parking warden who was ticketing my car. I explained that I went to get change and he saw that I was running but he said "sorry it's done".

 

My question is : Do they not have to allow you a resonable time to get a ticket in the first place?

 

I seem to remember somebody mentioning somewhere that you had ten minutes. This seems to be very unclear though, I asked security in the new car park with barrier controlled exit if I had to buy a ticket after dropping someone off there. I hadn't realised there were exit barriers. He said i just had to get a ticket from the machine and had 15 minutes to leave before having to pay.

 

On the other hand recently I heard that the same council refused to cancel a PCN that had been put on a car while the owner had walked to the next ticket machine as the nearest machine wasn't working, so i'm non the wiser.

[rogerebaker]

Sorry to butt in on your conversation but I have tried reading all 19 (!) pages of this thread and have give up trying to find an answer. Could you guys' help?

 

I recieved a penalty charge noice today for parking in a bay without displaying a valid ticket/voucher. I had parked, walked 2 metres to the ATM withdrew £10, ran 100m down the road to get change and ran back shouting NO, No, No to the parking warden who was ticketing my car. I explained that I went to get change and he saw that I was running but he said "sorry it's done".

 

My question is : Do they not have to allow you a resonable time to get a ticket in the first place?

 

Roen

 

Common sense would suggest that you should be given time to get the ticket but as we all know common sense plays no part in PCNs. In your case I think your gonna struggle. I would make an informal appeal firstly to the council and go from there. If it ends up at the appeal hearing the ajudicator has no discretion in other words the only time the ticket can be cancelled thru the use of discretion is before it gets to the formal ajudicator appeal.

 

Have a look at the PCN to make sure its enforcable. There are many bits of it which may render it unenforcable all of which are on this thread somewhere.

[dboy007]

My girlfriend was parked in a red route today (she forgot she parked too long outside our flat) and recieved a PCN stuck on the windscreen. I'm assuming it's been posted by the red route people in their vans as i can't find the name of the borough on the PCN.

 

Haven't got a scanner so i'll just try and write it exactly as i see it.

 

Penalty Charge Notice

Road Traffic Act 1991 (as amended)

 

Date of Notice: 25/11/2006

Penalty Charge Notice: GF51657024

Vehicle Registration mark: XXXXXXXX

Was seen in: BALHAM HIGH ROAD

SW12

 

At 08:57

 

On: 25/11/2006

 

In circumstances giving me reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle was STOPPED WHERE PROHIBITED (ON A RED ROUTE OR CLEARWAY)

 

Officer: 11435

 

Signature XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Please see overleaf for further information

 

Read every page of this thread. Just wondering if this is valid as don't know how red route PCN's would differ to normal council PCN's

 

Any help much appreciated.

[JonCris]

I understand Red Routes enforcement in London is still the preserve of the Met Police & the issuers are proper traffic wardens hence the reference to "Officer" & not council revenue enhancement parking attendants. The Met Police Traffic Wardens CAN issue penalty notices as it IS still an offence to park on a Red Route the parking attendants can't.