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jesquared

MS90+6 pts?, updated licence not V5c - SD hearing friday **Resolved £88+3pts**

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Hi,

I'm new to this forum looking for any kind of advice.

 

BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

Moved house and forgot to change my address with DVLA (changes it on my driving license though)

I have been driving for over 6 years with a clean driving license 

 

Got a letter from West Mercia Enforcement Centre titled "FURTHER STEPS NOTICE" stating am owing £811, this came as a surprise as I never had any letter previously

 

Checked my Driving License details on gov.uk website and found  MS90,  6points and £660 fine recorded on my details

 

Called  West Mercia Enforcement Centre and was told I was sent a speeding fine for driving at 35mph iso 30mph, failed to respond as such the case was tried in court in my absence

 

 I have requested for a statutory Declaration, which is coming up at a magistrate court next Friday 31/01/20

 

What are my options please, how do I go about this process to get the best possible outcome.

 

I have tried to summarize the whole case as much as possible but happy to supply any other information needed 

 

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Guest DoNotDisturb

Hi there

 

I’m afraid you won’t usually have a defence if you didn’t change your address. The exception is if you could prove it didn’t arrive at the old address or if you had mail redirection in place. 
 

The prosecution only have to prove that the notice was sent to the registered keeper at their last known address.

It doesn’t matter whether you received it personally, but obviously if you can prove it did not arrive at that address (which is difficult if you don’t live there) then you would have a defence that it was not reasonably practicable for you to respond. The same applies if you had mail redirection in place.

 

If you do not have a defence, It is still worth going to court because your fine should be re-calculated in accordance with your income. It is likely the fine will be reduced significantly. 
 

One other thing to think about if you were the one driving, is to ask the prosecution if they would accept a plea to the original speeding allegation, and in return withdraw the failing to give the driver details offence. If they do this you may end up with fewer points, depending on the speed alleged. This is entirely at their discretion but many police forces will do it. 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

This person has come onto our forum and has tried to spam people on the basis that she is a lawyer. We would advise anybody to avoid anybody – a lawyer or any other professional who has to resort to this kind of practice.

Edited by DoNotDisturb
To warn people about spammers and that they should avoid them

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Thanks for your response, well appreciated, I was the one driving as at the time of the offence and I was doing 35mph on a 30mph road.

Is it worth engaging the services of a lawyer to explore the option of asking the prosecution if they would accept a plea to the original speeding allegation or is it something I can do myself.

 

Am just worried about the effect of MS90 on my insurance premium for the next 4 years 

 

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Guest DoNotDisturb

I am a lawyer. I’d be happy to chat with you on Monday if you like? 

Lucy Whitaker.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

This person has come onto our forum and has tried to spam people on the basis that she is a lawyer. We would advise anybody to avoid anybody – a lawyer or any other professional who has to resort to this kind of practice.

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When you have completed your SD you will almost certainly be asked how you plead to the offence(s).

Hopefully you have been "dual charged" with both Failing to provide driver's details (FtP) and Speeding.

So long as you were driving at the time of the allegation you should offer to plead guilty to speeding providing the FtP charge is dropped.

 

Do not under any circumstances plead guilty to speeding unless and until you have this agreement.

You cannot be convicted of speeding unless you plead guilty as they have no evidence that you were driving.

The danger in pleading guilty without the deal is that you will be convicted of speeding and they can still continue with the FtP charge.

 

On the basis of what you have said success will not be impossible but will be problematic and the possible outcome is nine points.

 

The "deal" is a well known procedure to prosecutors and Magistrates and is exercised in courts across England & Wales every day and is nearly always accepted. It is nearly always accepted.

 

If you can, arrive at court early and ask to see the prosecutor. You can put your offer then. If not, make the offer when you have completed your SD.

 

If by any chance it is not accepted, plead Not Guilty to both charges and come back on here (your case will be adjourned to a later date). We can then decide whether you have a reasonable chance of successfully defending the FtP charge.

 

Certainly at this stage you do not need a lawyer. You probably wouldn't need one if you have to defend the FtP charge either but let's wait and see what happens on Friday. Save your money for your fines, etc.

 

You need to make every effort to avoid a FtP conviction. It carries six points but most importantly an endorsement code (MS90) which insurers hate and it will see your premiums increase dramatically.

 

 

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In general, I’d be wary of any firm that felt it needed to “tout for business”.


I can’t be sure, though, that the person posting as Lucy Whitaker, lawyer, is indeed the Lucy Jane Whitaker (who is a solicitor) of the firm Pragma Law.

It might be a mischief maker trying to stir up trouble for her / her firm.

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jesquared posted at 00:28

 

Thanks so much "man in the middle", will update this forum with the outcome on Friday 

 

@BazzaS Thanks for the advice, will see how it goes on Friday.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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@ man in the middle ---- need a bit of clarification,

 

if getting to the magistrate court on Friday I find out that I have been charged ONLY for Failing to provide driver's details (FtP),  speeding not included, can I still request for a plea bargain or should I just plead guilty to FTP.

 

Am really worried about different scenarios that could play out on Friday.

 

Any advice will be appreciated.  

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15 hours ago, jesquared said:

if getting to the magistrate court on Friday I find out that I have been charged ONLY for Failing to provide driver's details (FtP),  speeding not included, can I still request for a plea bargain or should I just plead guilty to FTP.

 

A sympathetic prosecutor should be able to remedy that by raising the speeding charge afresh. 

If not, it is largely up to you.

 

You can plead guilty to FtP and be sentenced immediately. You will get  a 33% discount on your fine for doing so.

Alternatively you can give yourself a bit of breathing space by pleading Not Guilty.

The matter will then be set down for trial at a later date.

You can then discuss (either here or elsewhere) whether you have a realistic chance of defending the FtP charge.

 

if you eventually feel you have not you can change your plea before your trial. In theory your fine discount should be reduced from 33% to 25% if you do that (provided you change your plea in plenty of time) though some courts may be benevolent and allow you the full discount. Just as an example, if you earn £500 a week the difference in fines will be, at most £62 (£500 as against £562).

 

Bear in mind if you plead guilty you will also pay £85 prosecution costs and a Victim Surcharge of 10% of the fine.

If you plead Not Guilty but are convicted at trial you will receive no discount on your fine (which will be 1.5 weeks net income) and costs will be an eye-watering  £620. Six points will be imposed whatever route you go down.

 

One more point worth a mention.

If you are unfortunate and cannot secure the deal but want to plead NG to the FtP charge, the court will almost certainly hold a brief "Case Management" exercise. This is to ensure matters are in place for your trial (how much court time, any witnesses, etc.) and to set a date. During this you will probably be asked to state the basis of your NG plea.

 

All you need to do is to explain your change of address and not updating your V5C and that you want to explore any possible defence you may have (no need to get bogged down it that either here or in court at the present). Do not be pressured into changing your plea if you don't want to.

 

I have seen some Legal Advisors (the person sitting in front of the Magistrates and who advises them on the law) try to get defendants to change their plea in just the circumstances you are in. They shouldn't do it but some do: ("it's really your fault....you should have changed your address"..etc.). If you want the option of looking further into a possible defence just stand your ground. 

 

Hope all goes well. 

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FEEDBACK FROM COURT HEARING

A big thank you to all especially @ THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE for the advice and patience in explaining the statutory declaration to me.

Had my appointment in court today, pleaded guilty to the speeding offence while the FTP offence was dropped.

Got charged ₤88 (with an option to pay over 4months) plus 3points which is far better than the initial 6points and ₤811 fine.

 

Once again, thank you all, am indeed grateful.

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:clap2:

 

well done CAG

 

please don't forget to donate if you can to keep use here if we saved you £100's ...

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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7 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

:clap2:

 

well done CAG

 

please don't forget to donate if you can to keep use here if we saved you £100's ...

 

dx

 

will definitely do, this is  a worthy cause

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