can we have a new section in the forum for links to claims with contractual interest

[rougesept]

Hi Bong, hope I can catch you. I was pointed here as I asked where to find the best N1 POC for contractual interest claimants. Your post #91 draft seems great - do you have a full POC that may be good to go? I file N1 tomorrow and would love to use this.

 

Thanks

 

Rouge

[Guest bong]

Hi Bong, hope I can catch you. I was pointed here as I asked where to find the best N1 POC for contractual interest claimants. Your post #91 draft seems great - do you have a full POC that may be good to go? I file N1 tomorrow and would love to use this.

 

Thanks

 

Rouge

 

Hi Rouge,

 

I haven't actually looked at the N1 POC with a view to altering anything other than the contractual interest particulars. There were a few things in the POC posted by Karnevil that needed deleting because they contained personal references to the claimant who had originally posted it. I would suggest you do a search amongst the threads to find the rest of the N1 wording - off the top of my head I would try Mcuth (v RBS? - not sure), Glenn UK (v - Abbey? or Barclaycard?), Mindzai & Lucid v Lloyds, my own claim against HSBC, sorry if I have forgotten to mention any other threads where you will find more extensive claim details, I'm sure there are quite a few now. oh yes, alanfromderby probably has something in his threads aswell.

 

I am happy to do more work on the N1 template, in conjunction with other experienced members, particularly with regard to getting some wording sorted for claims beyond 6 years, but that wasn't my aim here at this stage.

 

I would feel comfortable using my suggestion for the contractual interest particulars in one of my own claims, but if people wish to use it as a template for their claims I would feel happier if it were given the "seal of approval" first by either the mods, or Bankfodder as an "official" contractual interest template.

 

For instance, it was bankfodder who initially suggested to people that mutuality and reciprocity were implied terms in the contract, whereas I was not sure of the legal arguments for this or how I might put a convincing argument forward for it, and so I have found another way of bringing a mutual & reciprocal argument into the claim, based on the UTCCR. I am waiting really to see if anyone has any arguments to make with it, and to see if anyone thinks I have missed out a valid argument for any implied effect of the contract. I think really since it was BF's idea, it would be helpful to have BF's comments on whether or not this is the way to go.

 

Once I have had feedback and this one is finalised, I will be able to modify my other draft template for people only wishing to claim the authorised rate and statutory (as alternatives) - as opposed to unauthorised, authorised and statutory - and get that posted up aswell.

[rougesept]

Hi Bong,

 

I have used part of your draft in my POC (not sent, just draft). Would you have a look at my thread (I've posted it there) and see how you feel about it?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/52797-rougesept-capital-one.html

 

Cheers

 

Rouge

[Guest bong]

Hi Bong,

 

I have used part of your draft in my POC (not sent, just draft). Would you have a look at my thread (I've posted it there) and see how you feel about it?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/52797-rougesept-capital-one.html

 

Cheers

 

Rouge

 

hi rouge, I can take a look later this evening, but not now unfortunately, I have to go out shortly, so I don't know if you were aiming to get this finalised before then. Will prob be around 9pm-ish.

[Guest bong]

Directive 93/13/EEC of 5 April 1993 on unfair terms in consumer contracts

 

Annex

 

TERMS REFERRED TO IN ARTICLE 3 (3)

 

1. Terms which have the object or effect of:

 

(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation

 

Hi

 

 

 

Could this bit above in red be related to using against penalty charges in my argument???

 

Milly X

 

 

milly, I'll get back to you later on this

[rougesept]

hi rouge, I can take a look later this evening, but not now unfortunately, I have to go out shortly, so I don't know if you were aiming to get this finalised before then. Will prob be around 9pm-ish.

 

Thanks for your help bong, that would be great. I'll keep an eye out.

 

Rouge

[bobandsuzzi]

hi mark

trythis one, really easy to use

 

http://www.zen122856.zen.co.uk/CompoundSheet_v1.9.xls

 

Bobandsue

[emmaf01]

Thank god!

 

This is brilliant. I've not gone ahead with my N1 because I've got so confused about what to put in with the CI issue. But thanks to you lot, I think I could be able to!

Keep up the good work!

[Glenn UK]

Bong

 

I'm preparing my POC for two more Abbey claims, did you manage to find any case law relating to unjust enrichment?

 

Or indeed has anyone else, that could relate to our claims or circumstances?

 

I am going to have a look but thought id ask./

 

BTW Bong your suggested POC re interest is looking good, i have printed it out and will fiddle with it to fit my case and can post it back here if anyone thinks it worthwhile (I don't to be honest) and will obviously post it in My own threads.

 

Glenn

[millymollymoo]

Bong

 

I'm preparing my POC for two more Abbey claims, did you manage to find any case law relating to unjust enrichment?

 

Or indeed has anyone else, that could relate to our claims or circumstances?

 

I am going to have a look but thought id ask./

 

BTW Bong your suggested POC re interest is looking good, i have printed it out and will fiddle with it to fit my case and can post it back here if anyone thinks it worthwhile (I don't to be honest) and will obviously post it in My own threads.

 

Glenn

 

Hi Glenn have something called the law of restitution; It names acase that might help clarify what you are asking.

 

The law of restitution is the law of gains-based recovery. It is to be contrasted with the law of compensation, which is the law of loss-based recovery. Obligations to make restitution and obligations to pay compensation are each a type of legal response to events in the real world. When a court orders restitution it orders the defendant to give up his gains to the claimant. When a court orders compensation it orders the defendant to compensate the claimant for his loss.

Restitution, like other legal responses, can be triggered by any one of a variety of causative events. These are events in the real world which trigger a legal response. Broadly speaking, an obligation to make restitution can be triggered by two different types of causative event:

1. Wrongs
   
2. Unjust enrichment

It is arguable that other types of causative event can also trigger an obligation to make restitution, but the above two are by far the most important. They will be considered in turn. It should be pointed out at this stage that the following analysis is based on English law. However, it is largely an analysis of principle rather than case law and therefore should have considerable relevance for most common law systems.

Contents

 

• 1 (1) Restitution for wrongs
• 2 (2) Restitution to reverse unjust enrichment
• 3 (3) Theological Meaning
• 4 References
  
• 5 See also

//

(1) Restitution for wrongs

 

Imagine that A commits a wrong against B and B sues in respect of that wrong. A will certainly be liable to pay compensation to B. If B seeks compensation then the court award will be measured by reference to the loss that B has suffered as a result of A’s wrongful act. However, in certain circumstances it will be open to B to seek restitution rather than compensation. It will be in his interest to do so if the profit that A made by his wrongful act is greater than the loss suffered by B.

Whether or not a claimant can seek restitution for a wrong depends to a large extent on the particular wrong in question. For example, in English law, restitution for breach of fiduciary duty is widely available but restitution for breach of contract is fairly exceptional. The wrong could be of any one of the following types:

1. A statutory tort
   
2. A common law tort
   
3. An equitable wrong
   
4. A breach of contract

Notice that (1)-(4) are all causative events (see above). The law responds to each of them by imposing an obligation to pay compensatory damages. Restitution for wrongs is the subject which deals with the issue of when exactly the law also responds by imposing an obligation to make restitution.

Example. In Attorney-General v Blake [2001] 1 AC 268, an English court found itself faced with the following claim. The defendant had made a profit somewhere in the region of £60,000 as a direct result of breaching his contract with the claimant. The claimant was undoubtedly entitled to claim compensatory damages but had suffered little or no identifiable loss. It therefore decided to seek restitution for the wrong of breach of contract. The claimant won the case and the defendant was ordered to pay over his profits to the claimant. However, the court was careful to point out that the normal legal response to a breach of contract is to award compensation. An order to make restitution was said to be available only in exceptional circumstances.

 

(2) Restitution to reverse unjust enrichment

 

go here

Unjust enrichment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Milly X

[Glenn UK]

Milly i just found somehting about 'disgorgement' which is interesting and may be relvant at least as a concept.

 

See here CJO - Abstract

 

GLenn

[millymollymoo]

Glenn, yes that sounds even better than what I found. Oh these banks do not know what will hit them !

 

By the way I am going off line to have a little bit more nosing around the Internet to see more on this and I am wondering if I should change all that text to a link . Let us know and I will change it later.

 

Milly X

[Guest bong]

Bong

 

I'm preparing my POC for two more Abbey claims, did you manage to find any case law relating to unjust enrichment?

 

 

I don't know if its relevant but there is this case here Trustee of FC Jones and Son v Jones [1997] Ch. 159, CA

 

Trustee of the Property of F C Jones & Sons (A Firm) -v- Jones [1997] Ch. 15913 May 1996

CA

Miller LJInsolvency, EquityCasemap

1 Citers

A bankruptcy order was made in 1984. Under the 1914 Act the trustee in bankruptcy got title to all the assets of the bankrupt as of the date of the act of bankruptcy. So, the trustee owned the partnership assets. The wife drew £11,700 out of those assets and invested in potato futures. By November 1984, she had made £50,000 using that money. The trustee sought to recover that sum. Held: It was the fruit of his money. A trustee in bankruptcy was entitled to an account of profits of investments withheld from him.Statute References omitted

[millymollymoo]

Help me I have found this index in pdf and I think it has everything we need, but do not know the title of this publication.

 

I have provided the link http://www.hartpub.co.uk/pdf/1841133345.pdf

 

Milly X

 

Found it now!!!

 

Books

[millymollymoo]

Milly i just found somehting about 'disgorgement' which is interesting and may be relvant at least as a concept.

 

See here CJO - Abstract

 

GLenn

 

 

Hi Glenn right I think you are on to the right path here

 

Have a read here as it discusses disgorgement claims for the profits of wrongdoings and quotes that ' a person shall not be permitted to gain profits from his wrongdoing' also that a person may be entitled to treat the contract as discharged by this breach and bring a claim for the value of money or other benefits conferred by a victim upon the perpetrator; are recoverable in order to avoid the Unjust Enrichment of the perpetrator.

 

http://llr.lls.edu/volumes/v36-issue2/mccamus.pdf

 

As you are the finder of this very useful information concerning disgorgement,perhaps you could discuss with a Mod and see their views as I think you may have something good here .

 

By the way what docs are you using to prove Unjust Enrichment?

 

Milly X

[innocent]

RE: contractual POC

 

 

Hi all..

 

((Not changing subject; just clarifiying from a few days ago))

 

On the verge of submitting a few contractual claims (prelims, LBAs sent and deadlines up)....

 

Obviously reading around for ideal template; looked at Mccuths superb effort and looking at Bongs/Karnevils fantastic work too...

 

Regarding the later; what you are using as sections 1-8; as this is listed "9. Interest"....

 

I do hope this is not too silly a question.... but thankyou in anticipation of your answer....

 

 

Many regards (and keep up the "amazing" work)

 

 

Innocent

[Glenn UK]

Bong/Milly

 

Sorry haven't been online much, busy weekend.

 

That was my problem Milly, i didn't have any case law references for unjust enrichment when i went to my allocation hearing.

 

If i did my claim might have included all contractual interest instead of a lesser rate.

 

Still i have quite a bit of reading to do before going further, the stuff i found, the stuff you guys have linked/found plus some other reading.

 

Ill have a look over the next few days and keep my eye on this thread in case anything else comes up.

 

Glenn

[innocent]

Any thoughts on what I asked the other day?

 

 

"Thankyou"

 

 

[Guest bong]

sorry innocent.

 

you could try mcuth's POC here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland-bank/10582-mcuth-rbos-2.html#post432422 for an idea of what to write at paragraphs 1 to 8. The POC posted in this thread (and removed) was very similar.

[innocent]

Cheers Bong

[millymollymoo]

Bong/Milly

 

Sorry haven't been online much, busy weekend.

 

That was my problem Milly, i didn't have any case law references for unjust enrichment when i went to my allocation hearing.

 

If i did my claim might have included all contractual interest instead of a lesser rate.

 

Still i have quite a bit of reading to do before going further, the stuff i found, the stuff you guys have linked/found plus some other reading.

 

Ill have a look over the next few days and keep my eye on this thread in case anything else comes up.

 

Glenn

 

 

Hi Glenn:)

 

I'm looking too!!! Make sure you post up any case relevant i will too {once or if found!!!}. I have been reading so much lately me heads splitting!!

 

Milly X

[Perseus]

Hi all

 

Just looking at this website England and Wales Restitution cases A-B - theres so much here, trawling through to see if theres anything relevant.

Someone might beat me to it!

 

Quite a few cases under 'fiduciary' for unjust enrichment - trying to find one that is case relevant is another matter.

 

Square eyed now - read more in the morning.

[TANZARELLI]

I think we should also differentiate somehow between claiming contractual interest on credit cards and banks accounts.

 

Yes i agree, we use the cash advance rate for CC's and Un Borrowing rate for Banks.

[Perseus]

Good morning Karne,

Thanks for clearing that up - makes clear sense now.

[Glenn UK]

Karne where was that quote taken from?

 

The reason i ask is that the context is important and i want to be sure i understand what BF was talking about.

 

Glenn