UKPCwindscreen PCN - roadway parking res est - Alcock Crescent (Vickers Green Estate), Crayford, DA1 4LX

[beefturnmail]

1. The date of infringement? 17/2/19

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] N

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) n/a

 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? n/a, but photos available online

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] n/a

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

 

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] n/a

 

5 Who is the parking company? UKPC

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Alcock Crescent (Vickers Green Estate), Crayford, DA1 4LX

 

Ticket says they operate under BPA

 

………………………..

 

Hi

received a windscreen ticket from UKPC for parking on the road.

In a residential estate, but on a road, not a car park.

 

No markings, yellow lines on the road and wasn't blocking anyone or any entrances.

A not very obvious sign parallel to the road saying "No Unauthorised Parking" which looked like they were for the parking bays, but on closer inspection after receiving the ticket say 'no roadway' parking in very small letters.

 

They have photos showing car with a blurry sign in the background on other side of the road, plus a close up photo, taken at an extreme upwards angle (blurry, can't really read what it says - my own photo is much better)

 

Considering whether its worth an appeal or not, any help appreciated.

 

Thanks

Edited February 19, 2019 by dx100uk
format

[dx100uk]

await the NTK which must arrive 29-56 days.

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Do not appeal, or you might identify yourself as the driver, and that is a very bad idea.

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

I have looked on Googlespy (Street View) and there is one sign at the entrance to the estate but that is on Samas Way and is after the entrance to Alcock Crescent so by assumption, this sign suggests one area (Samas Way) is the permit holder part only.

 

Travelling around the site, I spotted 11 other signs (possibly more than I could see) which had individual terms on them however, the main condition is "No unauthorised parking" . This is an absolute term so you cannot breach a term that forbids parking. This is trespass only and only the landowner can take action, not UKPC.

 

I can't understand why UKPC have not mentioned PoFA. Can you post up the ticket, suitably redacted of all identifiable information where we can see what is what.

[beefturnmail]

Thanks, that is exactly what the driver thought - i.e. restrictions were for space beyond sign in Samas.

 

The car was reversed round the corner from the Samas way entrance, into Alcock Crescent, and then parked a little way back from the corner, on the right hand side of Alcock Crescent as you drive into it (or left if you reverse into it as was the case), opposite the grassy area before the parking spaces.

 

Tickets are at the following URL (I can't post direct as don't have 10 posts.)

[dx100uk]

ive removed the links

you need to obscure the barcodes too

use PDF please

and attach then directly here

read upload

[beefturnmail]

Thanks, See attached

UKPC PCN - Front.pdf

UKPC PCN - back.pdf

[beefturnmail]

I have also attached some photos. One from UKPC showing car with sign in the background and one from UKPC of the sign saying no roadway parking. UKPC have other photos of just the car

 

I haev also attached my own photos of the entrance to the estate, the entrance to the road where the car was parked (Alcock Crescent) with an arrow indicating its placement. Also my own photo of the sign.

UKPC Photos redacted.pdf

[silverfox1961]

As UKPC have not followed the guidelines set by the BPA in that it's members should use PoFA when chasing tickets, there can be no keeper liability. Only the driver can be chased and you are under no obligation to name them. Anybody with their own insurance can drive your car with your permission although under third party rules only.

 

I would wait until the Notice to Keeper arrives and see what they say. If they then start relying on PoFA, they would be on a sticky wicket (IMO) as the shouldn't be able to issue tickets under one law then chase under another.

 

The NtK should arrive (if PoFA is used) between 29 and 56 days after the issuance of the ticket. If it arrives too early or too late then they are stuffed.

[ericsbrother]

from what you say they are stuffed for several reason including prohibitive signage, lack of relevant signage ( signs on the other side of the road dont apply) and so on. their NTK will also contain errors so another stick to beat them with.

 

That is why we say wait for the NTK, appeal now and you throw away a considerabel protection of the law from greedy gits who cnat do their jobs properly

Edited February 23, 2019 by honeybee13
Paras, typos

[beefturnmail]

An update - UKPC have given up.

 

 Keeper followed the advice on MSE and appealed as the keeper on day 25.  UKPC issued a late and POFA non-complaint NTK on day 59.  They then failed to respond or issue a POPLA code within 35 days of the initial appeal (as the BPA Code of Practice sets out they must).  So keeper complained to the BPA and DVLA.  Then 2 days later UKPC cancelled the charge as a 'gesture of goodwill'.

[ericsbrother]

Keeper can sue them for breach of the GDPR. If it were me I would but that takes time and energy that most people dont have.

Good that they saw sense eventually even if it needed their trade association to prod them. UKPC are like CEL, they ignore or break the law but no meaningful sanctions are applied to them. Neither should be still in business