Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Hi all   Firstly, thanks for all the helpful threads on here. Whilst there's a lot to read and get through, it's both helpful and reassuring to see so much great advice and support to others in similar situations.   I've received a letter and a Claim Form from Moriarty for an ADCB CC debt. I'm presently in a DMP for existing UK debts and (probably like many others) I truly don't know the best way forward, as time is clearly of the essence - but I don't feel I've 'up to speed' yet on all the other threads, advice, lingo etc. to respond accordingly.   I'm looking at drafting the PAP and getting it of tomorrow, but just want to get into the other threads to see if it's the right thing (and get more info on similar cases).   Please feel free to comment with any advice - all gratefully received of course. Thanks again for anyone that's posted in other threads and great to see so many kind and generous respondents helping others.
    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
  • Our picks

Yani P

Cabot/Restons claimform - old Halifax Credit card - fraud use+Poss SBd

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 787 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

In their 31:14 response they said that it does not apply to claims made online and they said I would have had all the contract terms and agreement when I opened the account so no reason why they should provide an additional copy.

 

Yes we see that statement on every Restons thread...but it does apply after you submit your defence.....when they have to disclose all the original documents to proceed.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just one more query. Will that defence statement 2 posts up suffice for entry tomorrow or does it need to contain more detail about my overall defence? Not done one of these before so no idea if it covers all the requirements.

Edited by Yani P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that their particulars...verbatim...you have not removed anything...account number etc etc....?

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the defendant(s) and Halifax dated on or about Sept 17 2003, and assigned to the claimant on July 18 2014. To the value of £xxx.xx


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is that their particulars...verbatim...you have not removed anything...account number etc etc....?

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the defendant(s) and Halifax dated on or about Sept 17 2003, and assigned to the claimant on July 18 2014. To the value of £xxx.xx

 

sorry there is more under that just looked a little jumbled -

PARTICULARS a/c number (number listed)

Date 12/11/14 ITEM default balance VALUE £xxxx

Post Refrl Cr NIL

 

 

(I didnt add them to the defence as didnt see that detail in the version I lifted from another thread)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok is that number 16 digits?

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ok is that number 16 digits?

dx

 

It is - I assumed it was the account number

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great so def a credit card claim then.

 

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All - seriously thanks very much for taking the time to help - much appreciated. I will send the following (cut from above where you have kindly added the various pieces). I guess for now this is all I have to do as pretty blind on next steps without the proof from them of dates of last payments etc etc. I have added an extra line or two from their 31:14 response as they state that the particulars of the claim give enough information.

------------------------------------------------

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the defendant(s) and Halifax dated on or about Sept 17 2003, and assigned to the claimant on July 18 2014. To the value of £xxx.xx

 

PARTICULARS a/c number (number listed)

Date 12/11/14 ITEM default balance VALUE £xxxx

Post Refrl Cr NIL

 

Defence

The Defendant contends that the particulars of the claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence of agreement/contract/breach as requested by CPR 31.14. Furthermore, a CCA Requesticon sent on 5/9/17 has still not been responded to.

 

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement/contract with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

3. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

4. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974.

 

In their 31:14 response it suggests that it does not apply to claims made online as no opportunity to attach documents, and they also stated that I would have had all the contract terms and agreement when I opened the account so no reason why they should provide an additional copy. They also state that the Particulars of the Claim (quoted above) contains sufficient information in order for me to understand what the Claim relates to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would it not be wise to state this is a fraudulent account and is a case if identity theft?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would it not be wise to state this is a fraudulent account and is a case if identity theft?

 

I didnt know whether that would be something for the future (ie if they prove that this isnt SB?) I didnt know if I should put that in as well but can easily add that something like:

 

I also believe that this account is likely to have been subject to some fraudulent usage as I had my identity stolen, and had raised concerns with Halifax that this account may have been subject to fraudulent activity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you initially open this account in your name ?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes this was certainly my account - I believe I have not had any activity on it for well over 6 years in the first instance.

 

I had my identity stolen and raised concerns on various accounts I held that some of the transactions were fraudulent usage. These concerns were basically ignored.

 

So not challenging that it was my account, more the potential of it being SB and the reasons why there were issues in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay and you have retained copies of this activity that you sent to halifax ...? Roughly how much would you equate to any possible fraudulent use ?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think I hold any of the original documentation or correspondence.

 

I tried asking Halifax for any copies of account detail and/or correspondence but they could not even locate the account according to the people I spoke to (hence my call to the ICO).

 

I think a sizeable lump of this debt is probably interest as they kept loading it up even when I was in dispute querying the possible frauds.

 

I did report the fraud to the police at the time and have it acknowledged as identity theft by the police (as other accounts were affected as will as DVLA activity).

 

If I submit the statement a few posts up I am happy to add a paragraph about potential fraud on the account and identity theft. Do I need to call out all potential issues in this initial defence?

 

My question is do I do this now as could be SB?

If they prove it is not SB (even though I believe it is)

could I still then raise the issues with fraud/identity theft in the future?

 

I have submitted

- lets see what comes back

- I mentioned the fraud/stolen identity as an extra paragraph whilst stressing I firmly believe this to be SB but have not received any documentation in advance of my defence submission..

 

Thanks to all who have helped here so far

- much appreciated and I will be making a donation to this site..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I submit the statement a few posts up I am happy to add a paragraph about potential fraud on the account and identity theft. Do I need to call out all potential issues in this initial defence?

 

My question is do I do this now as could be SB? If they prove it is not SB (even though I believe it is) could I still then raise the issues with fraud/identity theft in the future?

 

Yes...once your defence is submitted the claimant has 33 days to notify the court if they wish to proceed..if they do you will be submitting standard disclosure (evidence) and a witness statement in which you can particularise your defence further.

 

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a letter from Restons at the end it stated..

we are aware of your request made persuant to S77/78 of the CCA 1974,

we respectfully point out that non-compliance with such a request only renders the account unenforceable until such time that the request has been complied with. It does not mean that the claimant is unable to recover the debt indefinitely.

 

In any event we have been instructed to place the account on hold.

 

 

Once documentation has been received it will be forwarded to you.

 

 

Please bear in mind this can take some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well if the claim gets auto stayed

matters not what they sent ....

unless they pay to lift the stay

usual BS from rectums.

 

 

NO CCA NO PAY ...fleecers!!


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please bear in mind this can take some time.

 

Take as long as you wish :wink:


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...