Moral Dilemma

[Dandeilion Clock]

Hello,

I know of an employer who is not paying minimum wage. They employ at least two people I know of personally who are both EU migrants. This employer is in the hospitality industry and pays £7 per hour cash in hand, no contract, no wage slips, and I assume no rights.

 

One of the people employed there already has two legit part time jobs so this cash in hand one takes them over the tax limit which they obviously don't pay as it is not on record. The other employee has no other job so this is their only income. They only work part time evenings, or on a when needed basis. Neither of them currently claim any benefits.

 

I am wondering what the general consensus is on this type of activity? Would you report the company or just mind your own business?

I don't like the idea of possibly taking income away people. Also their English is pretty poor so I don't think they really understand the legal situation, I don't know if those employed there even know it is wrong.

 

On the other hand I think employers exploiting people who don't have many options or don't know their rights is not fair either.

 

Just wondering what peoples opinions are.

Thanks

Edited June 21, 2017 by Dandeilion Clock

[SuperVillain]

Also if they are being paid cash in hand, I believe I'm right in thinking there is no national insurance being paid by either the company or the employee.

[BankFodder]

That's right. There will be no national insurance being paid by anybody. That means that in addition to receiving less than the minimum wage, they have no protection in the case of illness, they have no holidays. If there are any women involved who become pregnant, they have no maternity leave. Very importantly, if anybody has an industrial accident then they are on their own because there will be no insurance at all to cover them.

 

I understand your point very much about the fact that at least these people are getting some kind of payment – but on the other hand there are many other factors at stake. Also this means that the employer is able to undercut competitors who act morally and lawfully so that people who are honest and hard-working don't have the same fair opportunities as the employer you are talking about.

 

I'm afraid that I would go ahead and report them. There is much more at stake here then simply the jobs of one or two people.

 

You may as well ask the same question about jurisdictions in which a blind eye is turned to very young children working in factories or in mines in extremely poor and dangerous conditions and at a fraction of the going rate for an adult. The same moral imperatives exist – although maybe to a different degree – but if you prevent the children working, does this mean that their families go hungry? There must be a danger of that but on the other hand who compensates the children if they are maimed at work. Who compensates them in adult life because they have been deprived of education and the opportunity to go on to have a better life for themselves and their own families?

 

I think it will be very misguided not to report the employer

[ericsbrother]

this is not a victimless crime, everyone else who works in the same industry suffers as a result of this, wages will remain depressed, the tax take means less money for govt to spend on things, no protection for the employee should they have an accident etc.

As for the employees suffering froma lack of coomand of the english language- this is an imperative for them to learn to communicate and if not in english at least with others who are in a better position to offer help in ther own language.

[sangie5952]

I would entirely agree. To be objective, whilst I doubt it, it is possible that the law isn't being broken. But that isn't your problem. If it's all above board, then that's nothing to do with you and fine. But for self employed people, for example, the living wage doesn't apply. But that is for others to worry about. They all, whoever they are, have responsibilities, and they must sort those out.

[Dandeilion Clock]

Thanks everyone for your input. I can only assume this is so that the employer does not have to pay for holiday or sick pay etc and at the same time have people available to work part time casually when it suits. Also as you point out, no tax or national insurance and all off the books and cash in hand. Otherwise if they wanted casual workers they could employ people on a zero hours contract.

 

I am going to see what else I can find out this week, I am meeting one of these friends to help them sort out their utility bill debts.

[Atlas01]

I'm quite apathetic in this area now

 

It is unjust and deflates the industry for all the other low (insert several profanities here) paid workers out there, but we all want to pay as little as possible, even us employee loving stalwarts

 

It can also be a pyrrhic victory as the employer just cuts more staff to balance the bills and people lose work

 

For me if i was certain there would be no loss to the people i was trying to help i would report them (No idea if the taxman/NMW bods cares about anon reports though)

 

If there was i chance i'd hurt the people i was trying to help i would zip it

 

Also if your employer gets wind of your aims or concerns there will be a huge target aimed at you and the people you are helping will vanish

 

Be careful