Another Harlands issue

[Lostandfound]

Hi all looking for some advice here as im really stressed out with Harlands and not good in these situations.

 

I joined a local womans only gym last year, its not a normal Gym as the training nights are only on a Monday, Tuesday and Thursday at 7pm.

 

 

I have confidence problems, servere anxiety and suffer panic attacks so i thought this womans only gym would be good for me.

 

 

The first half of the year was ok, it was very quiet and i could cope, but recently the owner has taken on loads of new woman and i started having panic attacks and not being able to cope, i was hiding and had to stop going.

 

 

This gym is £150 a month as you get nutrition plans etc ( I know its a lot of money, i was very stupid )

 

 

i went to my Doctor and got a letter saying i suffer from anxiety and unable to cope and have acquired medication and psychological help to help me cope and group situations trigger my anxiety.

 

It says in Harlands Terms and Conditions:

 

14. Long term (over 3 month) illness or injury: This agreement may be cancelled in the event of an illness, injury or medical condition which in the written opinion of a doctor or other suitably qualified medical practitioner prohibits exercise for 3 months or longer upon appropriate proof being provided.

 

Which i have done, however i got an email back from Harlands saying:

 

"Cancellations for medical reasons are only permissible upon the grounds of long-term medical incapacity. Such incapacity cannot be pre-existing and must prevent you from attending the gym."

 

My condition is pre-exsisting but it does not state this in the Terms and Conditions at all, they have just added this 'pre-exsisting' part in the email to me. Can i use this against them?

 

Also at the end of the email it also says "Your membership payments are required to be paid up to date irrespective of whether your request for cancellation proves to be successful."

 

What should i do next? I cannot afford to pay £150 a month for a gym i cannot attend.

My next payment comes out on the 4th April.

 

Please can anyone help

 

~ L

[BankFodder]

It seems to me that not only have they added the "pre-existing" element after you sign the contract, but in any event, your condition was not pre-existing at the time you made the contract in that it wasn't pre-existing in its present form.

 

I think that I would suggest that you cancel the direct debit. Make sure you do it in writing with your bank. Don't rely on telephone calls.

 

Reply to Harland's and point out to them that they are being dishonest by adding words to the term of the contract which you signed when you joined. Tell them that in any event, your condition was not existing in its present form at the time you sign the contract. Tell them that your letter is formal confirmation that your membership is cancelled and that you have cancelled the direct debit. Tell them that you are well aware of their reputation for instructing debt collectors, but they should not try with you because you have cancelled your membership within the terms of the contract. Tell them that if they want to make trouble then you're happy to see them in court and you will bring their misrepresentation of their contractual term to the attention of the court.

 

It is highly likely that Harlan's will pass the matter over to debt collectors who will then start to send you annoying letters and maybe even making threats of legal action. Do not be fazed by this. It is unlikely to happen. They will not touch your credit file. It is most unlikely that they will bring any legal action. They tend to restrict themselves to chasing people in the hope that people will eventually give up and pay them some money. Stick with us. Keep us informed. You will be all right.

 

If their letters and approaches to get out of hand then if you are up for it, we will help you start a legal action against them for compensation for breach of their own contract. They won't like that, but then they don't like it up 'em.

[Lostandfound]

Thanks for the quick reply! I feel a little better, but also i just noticed the gym instructor removed me from the gyms V.I.P support group, because he found out i was trying to leave,

 

 

i told him he couldnt do that as im still a paying member and he replied saying its just a free group yet on the home page it states the package includes: Unlimited 24/7 Support from our team of personal trainers in our private members area, support is on hand when you need it most.

 

So i dont have access to this anymore! is this something i could also use?

[slick132]

Hi LaF and welcome to CAG

 

Don't let this matter worry you - we've been dealing with Harlands for years and we know how they operate.

 

You've given us general info but we need the timeline as well so please let us know :-

 

1. Date you joined the gym.

 

2. Date the anxiety stopped you going to the gym.

 

3. Date you first told the gym (or Harlands) you were unable to attend anymore.

 

4. Was this done verbally or in writing.

 

5. Date you produced the GP letter to the gym (or Harlands).

 

6. The date Harlands emailed you refusing to accept the cancellation.

 

When we have the info we need, we can suggest if you need to make a final DD payment, or if you need to cancel the DD mandate before the pay't in early April.

 

[Lostandfound]

Hi LaF and welcome to CAG

 

Don't let this matter worry you - we've been dealing with Harlands for years and we know how they operate.

 

You've given us general info but we need the timeline as well so please let us know :-

 

1. Date you joined the gym.

 

2. Date the anxiety stopped you going to the gym.

 

3. Date you first told the gym (or Harlands) you were unable to attend anymore.

 

4. Was this done verbally or in writing.

 

5. Date you produced the GP letter to the gym (or Harlands).

 

6. The date Harlands emailed you refusing to accept the cancellation.

 

When we have the info we need, we can suggest if you need to make a final DD payment, or if you need to cancel the DD mandate before the pay't in early April.

 

 

I have sent in a doctor's note and this was the reply via email....

 

Cancellations for medical reasons are only permissible upon the grounds of long-term medical incapacity. Such incapacity cannot be pre-existing and must prevent you from attending the gym.

 

In order for Harlands to review a cancellation upon the grounds of medical incapacity, a completed accident & sickness form is required to be returned to the address listed below, in order for the review process to commence.One which can be issued from our offices upon request

 

 

So is that them refusing the doctors note? Because I won't be getting my doctor to fill in the form they are asking for as I will not let them have anymore of my personal information.

[BankFodder]

…and yes, removing you from the VIP group is definitely helpful to your case. Also, it was stupid and vindictive of them.

 

I don't know if that is then refusing your doctors note, but what seems fairly clear is that they are out of their depth and floundering.

 

I think if you have given the doctors note then that should be quite adequate. Given their overall behaviour and their misrepresentation of the contractual term, I think a judge would have very little difficulty accepting the doctors note plus evidence of their behaviour towards you.is there anything in the terms and conditions which say that you will have to fill out this documentation first?

[Lostandfound]

Im not sure in one email they said

 

 

"In order for Harlands to review a cancellation upon the grounds of medical incapacity, a completed accident & sickness form is required to be returned to the address listed below, in order for the review process to commence.One which can be issued from our offices upon request

 

We are able to accept a letter or note from your Doctor/GP stating your medical condition and why you are unable to attend the gym."

 

And in another email it says

 

" In order for a cancellation upon the grounds of medical incapacity to be reviewed, an accident and sickness form (which can be issued from our offices upon request) must be completed with your GP and returned to our offices. We are also able to accept a letter or note from your Doctor/GP stating your medical condition and why you are unable to attend the gym"

 

So its not very clear to me.

 

Slick.. i will answer these tomorrw once im on the pc and can get all my dates up. Thank you

[slick132]

Hi LaF,

 

Sure, let me have answers when you can. In the meantime, don't worry about this at all.

 

Harlands cannot demand that you comply with all their demands. They're have no authority to make you do this, or that. They're not qualified to decide on medical matters./

 

[Lostandfound]

Hi Slick,

 

Ok i joined the Gym on the 8th August 2016 but at this time it was using a company called Go Cardless and i wasnt in a contract and could cancel at any time.

 

On 4th of October 2016 we were transfered over to Harlands and the email i got then said

"You are committing to a single £0.00 Joining Fee payment and a further £150.00 per month for a minimum of 9 months."

 

Around Jan/Feb this year the gym started to get really busy and gradually i was missing more and more sessions due to my anxiety until i completely stopped going, i must have used the gym maybe 3 times in feb, and not been once this month. They took £150 for feb and march and i knew this is too much money when im unable to attend.

 

I went to the Doctors on 13th March and he wrote me a letter "This is to confirm that Miss **** suffers with Social Phobia and struggles in group settings with her anxiety. She has required Psychological treatment and medication to help her cope with her symptoms, i will be grateful for whatever assistance you can offer"

and i stuck a note in with that saying that my panic attacks are at an unbearable level making me very ill and unable to attend the gym anymore, i told them i informed my gym of this and asked them to review the cancellation.

(I dont know if i was to nice and polite to them!!) I sent it off recorded delivery.

 

I have had no reply from them by letter yet but an email did come through on the 15th which said

 

Cancellations for medical reasons are only permissible upon the grounds of long-term medical incapacity. Such incapacity cannot be pre-existing and must prevent you from attending the gym.

 

In order for Harlands to review a cancellation upon the grounds of medical incapacity, a completed accident & sickness form is required to be returned to the address listed below, in order for the review process to commence.One which can be issued from our offices upon request.

 

This form can be returned to Harlands via the post, by fax and can also be attached to an e-mail.

 

Our full address is:

 

Harlands Group

2nd Floor Rockwood House

9-17 Perrymount Road

Haywards Heath

West Sussex

RH16 3TW

 

Our fax number is 01444 449 152.

 

Your membership payments are required to be paid up to date irrespective of whether your request for cancellation proves to be successful.

 

Please note that requests for cancellation are not formal until Harlands are in receipt of a completed accident & sickness form in order to review the request.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us for any further information, or to request an accident & sickness form to be sent to your address.

 

We look forward to hearing from you soon."

 

I replied asking if they got my Doctors letter and did i need sickness form to fill in and ive not heard anything back since then, and i know the next payment is due out on the 4th April £150. My membership ends in July but another 4 months paying £150 for something i cannot attend is crazy, i dont know what the correct thing to do is? Do i really need this form? they said its not formal untill they have review the form!! Yet it says in the Terms and Conditions they can ALSO accept a doctors letter.

 

Edit: I forgot to add once i told my gym instructer i would not be back he removed me from the V.I.P support group so i have no access to this even though im still currently a paying member!!

 

Thanks for you help

Edited March 17, 2017 by Lostandfound

[Lostandfound]

Update:

 

I just had an email from Harlands, im shocked!!

 

We can confirm your membership has now been cancelled, therefore no further payments are due and your details have been cancelled accordingly.

 

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Im so happy, do you think its safe to cancel the DD now???

[slick132]

Hi LaF,

 

This is great news news for you and you can cancel the DD via your bank immediately.

 

Harlands may have realised they were on to a loser with this case. Perhaps they didn't want to be embarrassed by by being exposed if they harassed a vulnerable person.

 

Or they may have seen (here on the CAG forum) that we were discussing possible court action against Harlands.

 

Whatever the reason, I'm delighted for you because they're not going to bother you for months on end.