Article 50 Discussion

[hightail]

Whether you voted in or out, it would be a great contempt for the UK voter if it was decided that this was indeed only advisory and if so, surely the voter should have been informed of this before they cast their vote ?

It was no secret before the vote that the result of the referendum was not binding. It was in the papers and discussed on TV and radio. It was one of the very few indisputable 'facts' of the whole debacle.

[hightail]

Also what about the 27 other countries within the EU that have their own issues. You can't just look at the UK and consider Brexit from a narrow view point.

Isn't that exactly what 52% of those who voted did?

[hightail]

2 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

I have no-one to vote for locally. 

Neither do I.  Two Conservative candidates on the list as far as I can see and that's all.  Is it worth going along to spoil a paper?  Seems very wrong not to bother at all but what's the point.

[hightail]

34 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Also, in the scheme of things, it's not all that long since women fought and died to get the vote.

Exactly which is why it doesn't sit well with me not to turn up.  However, in my case I have the choice between a self-satisfied racist and ........................................... another self-satisfied racist.  How is it ridiculous not to vote for either of them?

[hightail]

2 hours ago, Jase1982 said:

Still the Maybot is plowing ahead with her "we must deliver the brexit people voted for" default setting. 

Exactly what brexit did the people vote for?  Am I the only one who had a simple yes/no option in the referendum.  Did leave voters have an option to pen an essay outlining exactly what sort of brexit they were voting for? 

[hightail]

I think they'll do anything to hold their party together.  That's the reason Cameron gave in to a referendum in the first place.  This whole sorry shambles is the result of the Tory party looking inwards and not giving a damn about the country.

[hightail]

I wish I could believe another referendum would make some worthwhile difference.  I can't find a leave voter who admits they voted that way because of the lies (even though they were very vocal about an extra £350m going straight to the NHS at the time in my local) so they're unlikely to change their minds and vote remain a second time around.  I even know remain voters who are so sick of the whole thing now they say they'd vote leave in a second referendum just to be done with it all.

[hightail]

Those who believed the lies need to continue to do so.  It's no different to those individually targeted cons where the gullible continue to send ever increasing amounts of money to con artists. 

[hightail]

The way the selection of a new leader is going it's pretty clear to me that they are very much moving right and into the pocket of Trump.  What's so sad is that so many who think this is a good idea are not moneyed or even in secure employment.  They're the very people who will suffer if (when) there's a dilution of workers' rights.  The likes of Boris will trouser extra profits while idiots in low paid jobs with no security who think the Tory stance on immigration will guarantee them a council house are going to be very disappointed.

[hightail]

I doubt they really do believe it.  They believe the party membership will believe it - and they already know they'll believe just about anything.

[hightail]

He'll just write something on the side of a bus and that will make everything OK.  The very fact that Boris is so far ahead in the running is proof that they can get away with just about anything so will continue to lie. Seriously, it's pretty obvious they regard the electorate with contempt.

[hightail]

More frightening to think of us crashing out because of the promised date.  If that happens with Boris in No. 10 and Trump in the Whitehouse ordinary people will have more than chlorinated chicken to worry about.

[hightail]

So it will be an unholy alliance of Boris, Trump and Putin.  Out of those which one will hold little or no power?  Is this what's meant by 'taking back control'.

 

I should think Trump and Putin are agreeing the carve up right now.

Edited June 21, 2019 by hightail

[hightail]

1 hour ago, tobyjugg2 said:

I can't imagine me voting Labour (or Tory) in any circumstances with Corbyn now. That is from a lifelong labour voter

Same here from a habitual Tory voter until a few years ago.  If we're all this disillusioned with the self-serving lowlifes that now inhabit Westminster we have a real issue deciding where to place our mark on a ballot paper?

[hightail]

3 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

The Guardian has an interview with an ex-US treasury secretary who thinks the UK is desperate for a trade deal and likely to be walked all over.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/brexit-clinton-treasury-secretary-larry-summers-dismisses-desperate-uk-hopes-of-us-trade-deal

How could anyone see it otherwise.  We may have punched above our weight in the past but we are about to become a tiny country sitting alone in a big world. 

[hightail]

It's 'the will of the people'.  Pointless anyone who voted leave saying it's not what they voted for - whatever mess we end up in is exactly what they voted for.

 

[hightail]

1 minute ago, honeybee13 said:

To be fair, hightail, some of the press are saying that no deal was hardly mentioned in the referendum.

There's plenty wasn't mentioned but over 50% of those who voted were quite happy to leave the detail for another day so that's what they voted for.

[hightail]

4 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

On what basis do you present that as any sort of truth other ... than your own personal one?

 

... Rather than that the voters believed they would

Still get ALL the benefits of single market access without the cost

PLUS 350M a week extra for the NHS

PLUS deals ready to go with the rest of the world

Plus existing rights and protections ... protected and secure

PLUS PLUS PLUS

I guess because I'm still clinging on to the hope that so many weren't really so stupid as to believe that was possible. 

[hightail]

The different lies hit the spot with different people and that I understand.  Who wouldn't want to to save the NHS? (ironic really considering what will probably happen).  I live in one of the fiercest 'leave' areas in the country and there's no way at the time any of the leave voters I know were arguing on the basis of all those lies.  They didn't care if they were truth or lies, they just 'wanted out at any cost'.  That's a phrase I heard - a lot.  Nobody voted for change believing things would stay the same - or at least that's not what they said.

Edited August 16, 2019 by hightail

[hightail]

21 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Peterborough - Large Brexit supporting in the referendum - did NOT vote in the Brexit party.

Don't live a million miles away from there (though not in the same constintuency) and you can't imagine my relief when that particular vote was declared

[hightail]

10 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Does anyone know of a UK government IT project that's been delivered on time and works properly?

Well HB, something had to make me burst out laughing through this debacle and you've managed it.

[hightail]

On 21/08/2019 at 10:34, brassnecked said:

yes take precautions, and the full tank of fuel isn't a bad idea,

I knew there was a good reason for having an electric vehicle - assuming electricity supplies won't be disrupted and I'll still be able to charge it.

 

I'm not stocking my freezer and cupboards so much because it's the perishables I'm bothered about and believe will be the problem.  Tinned, dried and frozen stuff may be subject to price rises I suppose - simple law of supply and demand.

[hightail]

3 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

So it's the end of democracy then?

In as much as we accept an individual in a position of power can choose to bypass Parliament I think it is.  When it's an individual who was put in that position of power by their own followers only rather than the country it starts to look more like a coup than demcracy.

[hightail]

So it's all round to King12345's for Christmas then.

[hightail]

And anything said since about the dangers of leaving are labelled 'project fear'.  There's no doubt the leave campaign had, and continues to have, the catchiest slogans.