CPM resident permit parking tickets issued **WON ALL TICKETS CANCELLED**

[Andy77799]

Hi all

 

 

a friend just got a ticket at home and picture clearly shows her permit next to the ticket!

 

 

Happen to a neighbour a few times.

 

She cannot call as deaf.

 

Shall I just tell her to ignore it or send letter to CPM saying not paying?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

no do not ignore

 

 

can you fill this out please

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket-(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[ericsbrother]

If you can post up the offending letter with it picture (personal details redacted but please leave time/place details visible) and we will advise.

 

At the moment it looks like a strongly worded letter to company complaining of their attempted fraud.

 

As they are members of the IPC they will no doubt ignore this but copy to trading standards and the IPC and we will see what they say.

 

What did the neighbour do about it?

 

Is there a managing agent that has invitied these bandit onto your land

, if so they dont have the right to do so but that is another matter that may need to be addressed if they dont desist.

[Andy77799]

here

CPM UK PNC.pdf

Edited July 31, 2016 by dx100uk
Art unapproved show ref no's which could ID you - dx

[Andy77799]

She doesn`t know what the neighbor did and she sent letter of appeal this morning

[ericsbrother]

sorry, this is a screen ticket, not a NTK.

 

Wait for the arrival of the NTK, which has to arrive between 29-56 days after the date on the ticket.

 

Any sooner or later and there will be no keeper liability createda nd that means they are left chasing the driver, who is unknown to them.

 

Never, ever say who was driving at the time becuase that removes the protection of the POFA.

 

most parking co's get some of their procedures wrong so they lose the right to create a keeper liabity.

 

If they know who the driver is they can then continue their actions against that person (even in Scotland, where the laws are different) and our job becomes more long winded.

 

chances are the wording on the signage matches that of the ticket, which refers to a prohibitive condition.

 

You cannot be in breach of a contract that bars you from doing something.

It is like having a sign that syas "do not read this sign, £20 breach of contract if you do" Well how are you supposed to know the terms of a contract if you dont read it?

 

I Think you now get the gist of this, the parking co's have undoubtedly got it wrong and for the moment we are waiting for them to shoot themselves in the other foot as well.

[Andy77799]

Thanks for reply,

the 29-56 days is obviously longer than the payment time for the reduced amount!

 

I will forward your info to her and see what she put in appeal letter.

 

Surely the bit about who was driving is irrelevant as it was parked???

[renegadeimp]

Ignore their silly timeframes. You deal in the legal timeframes. Not their made up ones

[ericsbrother]

Appeal letter already?

Please get her to bin it if not sent as it will cause her more pain and suffering.

 

Relevance of driver?

You need to read up on unilateral contract law and the POFA and keeper liability.

 

 

Ignorance is no defence as they say so it is important to differentiate dbetween the parties.

 

One of the reasons why helping people secondhand is always a nightmare,

get her to read the thread rather thn you just muddying things

[Andy77799]

Too late! sent letter of appeal three days after getting ticket, the day she messaged me.

 

Turns out that CPM who gave the ticket also issue the permits of which there is no expiry date on it

 

and also names the car park as Friends Court but it doesn`t have a name!

[ericsbrother]

so where is the picture of her ticket next to the parking permit?

What is the postal address of the place the car was parked and what type of place is it.

 

It seems to be residential but who owns it,

are the residents owner-occupiers. tenants, social tenants etc.

 

What do the signs there say/Are they visible at the entrance to the site or dotted about randomly.

 

All these things are needed to know whether the fight is about the rights and wrongs of issuing this ticket or whether CPM have no rights to be there in the first place

[Andy77799]

 

The car park belongs to Amicus Horizon housing association for their residents.

 

CPM themselves provided all the parking permits to each resident on 19 October 2015

 

There are 4 blocks flats and one large and one small car park running alongside railway line

( the wall in photo is next to railway line.

 

 

The order goes.....

Big car park The one i use)..

. block flats Ross ct..

.. block flats Chandler Ct (whereI live) ..

. then 2 further blocks with a small 7 space car park at the other

 

There are 3 signs located next to lights on railway wall they are very obvious as they are opposite the entrance.

The car park holds about 24 spaces all residential including 2 disabled spaces.

 

my address is chandler ct, Station Approah , Horley, Surrey RH6 9EQ

 

The location is named as 'friends courts' there is no such place.

 

the 4 blocks of flats are called Ross, Chandler, Tribbiani and Geller Courts,

which are the names of the cast in the tv series Friends.

 

I suppose it could be termed generically for their paperwork but technically what would the law say?

[magsss]

Just to introduce myself, I am Maggie, the person who has been given this ticket. my lovely friend andy has done all the hard work for me with you but i can answer anything else if need me to.

[renegadeimp]

You have supremacy of contract. basically they cant touch you. Have a read of this forum and youll see many people had the same experience with this 'company'

[magsss]

I have just heard back from the housing people and they have said they have had a lot of complaints about the same issue of tickets with resident permits in the same car park and that they are 'in contact' with CPM over this. looking like a good ending to this one. love the phrase 'supremacy of contract'.

[ericsbrother]

their notice doesnt have a list of what constitutes a breach that will incur the charge so they cant levy it.

 

It says you must do this and that but doesnt say if you dont do this or that then these charges become payable.

 

In other words, there are no circumstance in the contract that makes the charge become payable.

 

Silly boys. This is their living and yet they cannot string 3 sentences together and worse than that, their trade association isnt capable of advising them how to do it and will defend their stupidity to the hilt, despite it being obvious they have got it wrong.

 

having said that, I wouldnt rely on the housing trust to do the right thing either so give it until the issue of the NTK is due and then make a formal complaint to the housing trust.

 

We will help you pick out the relevant points as there are a few to choose from and some are in the remit of the HA

[magsss]

I have now got my NTK.

 

 

My appeal was unsuccessful for the following reason..

...Signage clearly states

“A VALID UK CPM PERMIT MUST BE CLEARLY DISPLAYED IN THE FRONT WINDSCREEN AT ALL TIMES / VEHICLES DISPLAYING BAY OR AREA ALLOCATED PERMITS MUST PARK IN THE CORRESPONDING BAY OR AREA”.

 

The sign actually doesn’t say that at all!!!!!!

 

 

The only reason I can think it happened (to everyone) is the very bad state of the letters marking bays (as can be seen in photo).

 

 

I actually asked over a year ago for this to be made clearer

(Lot of excuses made then after 9 months manager said sorry didn’t know there was a car park there but we are not going to do it now).

 

Just finished talking to the housing association and gave them a good ear bashing on this and they are dealing with it,

I am not to pay anything, I am not to appeal, I do nothing.

 

Sorry I am not good with the photo sending; if you need more info let me know.

[Oddfellow]

their notice doesnt have a list of what constitutes a breach that will incur the charge so they cant levy it.

 

It says you must do this and that but doesnt say if you dont do this or that then these charges become payable.

 

In other words, there are no circumstance in the contract that makes the charge become payable.

 

 

 

EB, it looks as though the small print near the top of their sign says "Breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking will result in the driver being issued with a Penalty Charge of £100", then lists the Ts & Cs in large print.

 

 

Does this not constitute formation of the contract, or is there something that I have overlooked in reaching this opinion? The print is small but legible.

 

 

But in any event, Mags is correct that the Ts & Cs do not refer to having to park in a designated bay, so she isn't in breach.

[dx100uk]

I hope it doesn't say penalty charge!!

 

 

dx

[Oddfellow]

Apologies ... PARKING charge

[magsss]

i have just had a look to check this and it does indeed say Breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking will result in the driver being issued with a Penalty Charge of £100 in a tiny font but of course that is how they try to get their money.

 

 

i never even noticed it before. itd frustrating to wait and housing people could not say how long it will take to sort

 

 

- i just want to punch someone now

[magsss]

sorry it is parking (i did copy and paste lol)

[Oddfellow]

The experts on here, who most definitely do not include me

- I'm merely an interested bystander

- will instruct and inform you in the specifics of how to defend this action

, and you should ALWAYS follow their guidance,

 

but the fact that you have supremacy of contract (via having been issued with a permit), and that they don't list parking in a non-designated bay as one of the Terms & Conditions of parking should mean you are OK.

 

Don't let up on the Housing Assoc though!!

[ericsbrother]

post up a decent picture of the signage and we will be able to tell you more but generally speaking they dont have a leg to stabnd on as tenancy trump their contract

[magsss]

sorry that seems to be a fail

Edited August 15, 2016 by magsss