Acenden, Spml, Eurosail, Ge money. Are these all same company?

[martin2006]

So you send the same except its headed Letter Before Action and edit the last 2 paragraphs accordingly.

[cruzhughes]

Do I send the same as yours or mine?? I've just updated yours to say should you not respond in a positive manner, I will be left with no other alternative but to pursue you through the FOS then the courts. Shall i also add the new spreadsheet to date.

[martin2006]

I would use FOS and/or Court rather than FOS then court.

 

Yes you update the spreadsheet to todays date, which should be automatic when you open it and print off an up to date version, it will have automatically calculated the additional interest to date

[cruzhughes]

Spreadsheet all done and will amend wording. Maybe i shouldn't have mentioned court straightaway on first letter

[cruzhughes]

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Dear Sirs,

 

Further to my letter of a request for repayment of charges on 06/11/2016. I am disappointed that i have not received a satisfactory response, nor any response at all to date. Having reviewed the account I have found an alarming number of charges and additional interest charges on the account.

 

I am now in the belief that these charges and the interest that you have charged on them are unlawful at common law, statute and recent consumer regulations.

 

These charges would appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the UTCCR regulations 1999 (Si 1999/2083). The account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the UTCCR Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer.

 

The charges and additional interest charged upon the charges constitute an unfair penalty under schedule 2 of these Regulations, which provide an indicative but not exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair.

 

Under paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2, this specifically includes terms which have the object of requiring any consumer such as myself, who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. I would vigorously contend that this is the position regarding the fees and subsequent additional interest which have been applied to the account.

 

I wish to bring to your attention the following statement from the Office of Fair Trading:

“A term in a mortgage agreement which requires the borrower to pay more for breaching the contract terms than the actual costs and losses caused to the lender by the breach (or a genuine pre-estimate of that) is likely to be regarded as an unfair penalty and to be unenforceable both at common law and (in a consumer mortgage) under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.

 

I am therefore writing to ask that you refund all the charges levied against the above account in respect of, but not limited to, Administration Fees, Additional Interest, Direct Debit Recall Fees Etc. These fees total £3,397.88 In addition and due to the fact that I have only recently discovered that these fees are unlawful, I have calculated that compound interest to date at 8% at £3,244.28 as would be awarded in court under s69 statutory interest amounts to £6,642.16 to date and will continue to rise on a daily basis.

 

I firmly believe that the charges and fees levied far exceed any true cost to yourselves as a result of the breaches incurred and of any genuine pre estimate of loss you could conceivably reach.

 

Please forward a breakdown of the costs you have incurred as a result of the breaches in order to reassure that they do actually reflect your costs. I therefore ask that, by return, you refund the total in charges and fees including compound interest, a total of £6,642.16

 

Should you not respond in a positive manner within 14 days of the date of this letter I will be left with no other alternative but to pursue you through the FOS, and court, however, I would hope such action was not necessary.

 

This is a Letter before Action and further action WILL commence after the expiry of the deadline set above.

 

I have enclosed for your information an updated spreadsheet outlining the charges, fees and interest.

Yours Sincerely

[martin2006]

Just change the wording a bit in para 7.

 

S69 interest is applied at the courts discretion.

 

You are claiming compound interest at 8% (as per spreadshhet) up to the date of the claim if you go down the court route. From the court date its 8% simple interest s69.

 

If you are going down the FOS route then you will need to wait in total 8 weeks before FOS will look at it and you will only get 8% simple interest from the date the fees were applied to current date.

 

There is also no guarantee that FOS will uphold your complaint regarding fees, this is why using court, imho would bring a quicker resolution.

 

If FOS dont uphold your complaint, which could take a fair few months before you get a decision, then you can begin court action.

Personally in a case like this i would always use the court route, but thats just my preference.

[cruzhughes]

What do you think the chances are at court I haven't got the money to lose really

[martin2006]

In 99% of cases the claim is settled before it gets to court

 

The risk is there is always that 1% chance they go all the way

[mercyblue]

"S69 interest is applied at the courts discretion.

 

You are claiming compound interest at 8% (as per spreadshhet) up to the date of the claim if you go down the court route. From the court date its 8% simple interest s69."

 

S69 interest would, if applied, normally run from the cause of action.

I don't understand where the 8% compound interest comes from.

Mortgages only use simple interest

(it's a bit more complicated because the interest applies on the remaining principal)

so presumably so do any charges.

Assuming the charges attract the same interest rate as the mortgage principal

I would have thought it would be more logical to use that interest rate.

That interest rate would probably vary through the time period in question I would expect.

Alternatively you could just apply simple 8% from the date of each charge up to date of the claim that would allow you to calculate a daily rate for the claimform.

 

Claiming an 8% compound then lumping all that together and then claiming 8% simple you are actually claiming interest on interest.

 

 

[dx100uk]

go in high then they can argue things

if you go in low they'll always drive you down.

 

 

that way you get what you should back....

[cruzhughes]

Paragraph 7 amended. How's that?

 

I am therefore writing to ask that you refund all the charges levied against the above account in respect of, but not limited to, Administration Fees, Additional Interest, direct debit, Recall Fees Etc.

These fees total £3,397.88

 

 

In addition and due to the fact that I have only recently discovered that these fees are unlawful,

I have calculated that compound interest to date at 8% at £3,244.28.

This amounts to £6,642.16 to date and will continue to rise on a daily basis.

 

Please forward a breakdown of the costs you have incurred as a result of the breaches in order to reassure that they do actually reflect your costs. I therefore ask that, by return, you refund the total in charges and fees including 8 % interest, a total of £6,642.16

[mercyblue]

The question still remains on what legal basis are you applying an 8% compound rate?

[cruzhughes]

So do I change that? My spreadsheet is on here have I done the wrong one?

[cruzhughes]

Just change the wording a bit in para 7.

 

S69 interest is applied at the courts discretion.

 

You are claiming compound interest at 8% (as per spreadshhet) up to the date of the claim if you go down the court route. From the court date its 8% simple interest s69.

 

If you are going down the FOS route then you will need to wait in total 8 weeks before FOS will look at it and you will only get 8% simple interest from the date the fees were applied to current date.

 

There is also no guarantee that FOS will uphold your complaint regarding fees, this is why using court, imho would bring a quicker resolution.

 

If FOS dont uphold your complaint, which could take a fair few months before you get a decision, then you can begin court action.

Personally in a case like this i would always use the court route, but thats just my preference.

 

The 8 weeks are up the end of Dec anyway. Can you explain the differences of all the different types of interest please

[martin2006]

Compound interest is used up to the point of issuing the N1 claim form, From there its s69 interest at the courts discretion.

I think the confusion is coming from bith rates being 8%.

 

I used CI in a recent claim for mortgage charges and it was never challenged.

[cruzhughes]

have done the correct one on spreadsheet?? I'm baffled now as to what I should have done and what I have done

[martin2006]

Imho if you have completed the CISheet and used 8% then thats correct, you are claiming interest in restitution as you have been deprived of the money you have paid unfairly.

 

Once you issue a claimform (N1), from that date you can add s69, 8% simple interest until judgement or payment, whichever is sooner.

 

You are at LBA stage so an uo to date spreadsheet is required with the LBA.

 

If, after the 14 day deadline has expired, you still havent received a refund( and its unlikely that you will) you then have a choice to make.

 

You could either:

 

1. Issue a claim in the county court from the deadline date, but can be anytime after that deadline has passed.

 

2. Wait until 8 weeks has passed from the initial request for refund and if no satifactiry response or refund you can escalate the complaint to FOS.

 

As this is mortgage related charges, FOS may or may not take the case on and even if they do, you will not get compound interest, only 8% simple interest from the date each charge was levied.

[mercyblue]

"As this is mortgage related charges, FOS may or may not take the case on and even if they do, you will not get compound interest, only 8% simple interest from the date each charge was levied."

 

Which is the correct way. Martin you used compound interest and it went unnoticed is probably a testament to our countries shocking lack of knowledge of mathematics. Nevertheless the fact remains it could be challenged I certainly would. To be honest I would only bring it up at a hearing that alone should get me an adjournment no judge is going to want people sat there calculating interest more costs for the claimant to stump up to keep the case going.

Taking a sum applying (compound) interest to it then taking that sum, which will be hugely inflated due to the niceties of compound interest, then applying interest on top of that thus earning interest on the compound interest you had already applied is worthy of the financial sector at its worst so I take my hat off to you Martin and I do mean that sincerely you beat them at their own game and they didn't even notice.

 

[martin2006]

In the few cases i have taken down the court route MB that is the formula i have always used, with 100% success.

 

The SPML thread, in which i withdrew the claim was for ERC and has been my only failure to date.

 

Doesnt mean i am right or wrong, its just worked for me and countkess others, else why do we have the CISheet at all?

[mercyblue]

"Doesnt mean i am right or wrong, its just worked for me and countkess others, else why do we have the CISheet at all?"

 

Well to be honest Martin I have wondered that but it does seem to work. I am sure Martin you would want me to point out if "the other side" applied interest then took that sum and applied more interest on top of that.

If it has always gone unquestioned does make me wonder what might have gone unnoticed from the likes of SPML when they are ripping people off

[martin2006]

Well they do MB.

 

Take a credit card for an example, you borrow money, they charge you interst as you pay it back.

You stop paying back so they issue a claim and add 8% s69 on top of the interest they have already charged you.

[cruzhughes]

LBA sent 1st class on Monday still hasn't been signed for at high Wycombe adresss but it took around a week to be delivered and signed the first time around.

[martin2006]

You still stick to your timescales cruz, allow 14 + 2 days then its N1 if using court route.

[topcat1802]

I think you will find that that address is no longer correct, in fact I think the building in that location have even been demolished, the correct address now seems to be Ascot House, Maidenhead Office Park, Westacott Way, Maidenhead SL6 3QQ

[Tired and Weary]

http://www.brayfoxsmith.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/St-Johns-Place-Easton-Street-High-Wycombe.pdf

I believe they have moved to Maidenhead which is the address on their website,i know for a fact they didn`t inform any customers of this though which is typical of them.

Your post will probably be forwarded on.