Welcome secured loans/charge - sold to Alpha/Prime -repo received - ***Claim Dismissed***

[dx100uk]

yep this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_Tapestry

[cruzhughes]

You must live for a challenge I must say! Do I need to go inline and acknowledge that possession order before I submit defence or do it the same time

[Ell-enn]

You don't need to acknowledge the possession claim. Although the paperwork says you should enter your defence in 14 days, in reality it's OK to do it up to a week before the hearing (wouldn't be the first time I've had to do a defence statement for someone the day before the hearing - and at least one was on the morning of the hearing !) judes in possession cases are pretty ok as long as the defence is feasible.

 

Let me try and get my head round all the info to see what the best defence might be.

[cruzhughes]

Thank you ask away if you need to know anything. I'm going away in 3 weeks.

[cruzhughes]

well the balance should be lower.

but theres a wider picture to be resolved in all this

 

Am I to SAR prime/alpha? It would be back about the 20th may? Or just wait for the one off welcome. That shoukd be here in 2 weeks.

[dx100uk]

sit tight.

 

 

ell-enn I can open a dropbox folder to view all the docs in addition to whats elsewhere and already available to you.

 

 

..

[cruzhughes]

Ok will do!! Thanks dx. You haven't half got some stuff to share too!

[cruzhughes]

Second CCA request time is up now and not received anything. How you getting on Ell-enn

[cruzhughes]

What's the thoughts now. Are things better for me/court without CCA. What's the defence likely to be?

[dx100uk]

repo is not my bag

 

 

i'm not sure if the fact that they hold or not any paperwork in relation to the act is of any use toward going forward.

[cruzhughes]

what do you think is likely to happen now then?

One thing is a cert that I'm going to need help and guidance on this defence due to everything so far.

 

 

What are you thinking with everything you already know and have?

[Ell-enn]

Hi, sorry for delay in replying, very busy at work. I am considering how to word a defence but I have visitors all over easter so it will be difficult for me to get anything positive done until probably monday or tuesday. However, you need to think about what you want the judge to consider - in repo cases judges can only look at the facts i.e. how are the arrears to be paid , they cannot change the terms of an agreement.

 

While there is always the opportunity for you to deal directly with the lender regarding unfair charges, irresponsible lending etc, it is important to secure the roof over your head first, so you will need to make an offer to pay arrears at the hearing and then deal with the other issues once that is sorted.

 

I need you to give me concise facts to work on:

How much are the arrears

How did the arrears occur

How do you intend to repay the arrears.

[cruzhughes]

This debt I was paying after my divorce in 2014. To a company called welcome finance. After paying it for 18 months I though why am I paying something I don't owe. It's more complex than that but it's in my very first post. So I went digging and found out that a lot of debt had been run up in my name.

 

These welcome Loans were sercured on my house which is soley in my name. But both ex and mine signatures on LR docs.

 

I disputed the debt with Welcome in march 2016 and have not heard anything since.

 

On receiving a sar in April 2016 the loans date back 15 years. I requested a cca not a sar. But what I found out then shocked me.!

 

Lots of PPI and insurances which I was advised to try and claim to reduce balance of debt. So thought I'd go down that route to keep ex wife out of trouble. This started in sept

 

The debt was sold on in June 2016 to alpha credit and the first I heard about this was in my reclaim to welcome sept 2016 Response in nov 2016. This company have not wrote to me at my adresss even though Welcome have it.

 

They have wrote to my old address and first I knew about this was jan 2017. Ex wife does not pass mail on. I have received no notice of assignment from this company and they have my new address I have also requested copies of everything sent to wrong address be resent to me.

 

The arrears with this company look like mostly charges. But the original Welcome loan was irresponsiblly lent from all the paperwork I have. This is where it's confusing and almost 8000 has been awarded by the FSCS. Welcome have told me they bought that amount back from alpha. Yet alpha have not reduced any balance. So that's gone missing.

 

My way of trying to sort the original 2008 debt out was go down the irresponsible lending route and to reclaim all penalty charges. But as it's been sold on.

 

Plus the copy of the sercured loan date I have in 2006 corresponds with the LR paperwork. However three further loans were taken out after this date. But the paperwork was not filled at the LR. So they are totally different amounts. Plus the last loan was signed over 30 miles away. Is is 100% not my signature most of the rest look like they've been scanned.

 

I don't live at the security address my ex and kids do.

 

This is all one massive mess and I'm not sure what can be done.

 

DX has had everything each step of the process to now.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

[spud3726]

HI

 

I don't ever post on this site as I don't normally have anything to contribute, but I do read it every day. I have followed your thread and I can see that it is very complicated, and I have this advice for you.

 

Listen to the advice of DX and Ellen. Ellen five years ago more or less saved my life, I was in a terrible place and after a lot of advice ...sometimes it was not what I wanted to hear, I got through it and kept my family together. DX, whilst I sometimes do not agree with him, is a terrier and knows his stuff.

 

These guys would not hesitate to tell you if there was no point to this, and I know how hard it is ti stop second guessing the advice and always think the worst.

 

Dig deep, relax and just think of how much better you will feel when this is done. You can do it, we all know you can.

[cruzhughes]

Thanks for this. I was worried the very first moment I found stuff out.. dx had guided me through immensely.

 

This whole mess has worried me sick as it's in my name and it's my house. . I know the easiest thing to do would be grass the ex up but I've got to think of my kids. They are too young to understand the severity of it all.

 

So by trying reducing the balance I thought I was on to a winner. I already paid almost £300 a month for 18 months during spliting up and after divorce . The loan was over 300 months. With almost 40 grand interest on it and another 16 years left.

[Ell-enn]

Hi - I know you are trying to show as much info as you can, but honestly all judges are looking for in a repo case is for a plan to pay off the arrears - it's as simple as that I'm afraid. The only defence you have is that you didn't take out the loans or sign the paperwork - if you tell a judge that he will immediately log it as a criminal offence of fraud and I understand you don't want to get your ex-wife in trouble which is admirable but it doesn't help the repo case.

 

I have assisted in over 300 repo cases so please be assured I know what the court will condsider. The best best defence I can advise is to tell the court about the refund to the loan which hasn't been deducted - this will put the figure the lender is claiming into dispute and could get you a bit of breathing space as the judge will want the lender to produce an accurate balance and may adjourn the hearing to a later date for them to produce the new figure, but at the end of the day the judge will want to know how arrears are to be paid. The question most asked at court is - did you borrow the money? if the answer appears to be yes, then they consider that the money is owed and will expect you to be able to show how you intend to repay.

 

DX can help you as regards charges etc but you need to secure the roof over your head before bringing a case for anything else.

[cruzhughes]

This company have not written to me at all to give me any opportunity to pay. If they had I would have been able to go through the motions sooner with them. They have my new address now they also know that the loan is fully made up of charges and fees from the other company. They have not responded to the CCA request. Neither have they responded to the letter they have had with me outlining the full history of the original debt.the last loan is in doubt anyway of where it was signed and by whom as I know for a fact my ex wife would not be able to travel that distance as she doesn't drive it would take hours and hours by public transport and a few changes.

 

So did welcome rewrite that loan?

 

My theory is if I can show the charge at the LR corresponds with the 2006 loan not the 2008 loan then maybe it would all be sorted. I know by the SAR that there were 3 further loans after 2006 but the documents aren't held at the LR

 

Dx has already said the loan had been irresponsibly lent after the first rewrite.

 

There are arrears as I didn't know it was sold on or had any contact from new owners. I put the original account in dispute last march

[cruzhughes]

I have also requested anything that has been sent before to wrong adresss be resent to me. So at least we will know more

[Ell-enn]

Are you saying the figure the lender is claiming in the court papers is only charges and fees?

[cruzhughes]

I'm not sure of the breakdown but yes a lot is charges. Will upload the prime letters shortly I already put them on here from jan onwards. Prime/alpha are not the original lender they have added charges and on too

[dx100uk]

we can certainly prove that the debt [which is NINE refinanced welcome loans, some less than 6mts apart] is 99% ALL PPI/MIF/Insurances/penalties]

[cruzhughes]

Thanks dx. I don't think I've been to explain clearly. But the money that alpha/prime have added is is extra too. Isn't it?

[cruzhughes]

Just had this off prime today

PRime 7 April.pdf

[dx100uk]

Alpha draft headed account in serious dispute is this ok to go?

 

I wish you to consider the removal of a charge dated 19/10/2006 that you now hold against my property by a Deed of Variation dated 17/09/2016. Copy enclosed.

 

The history behind this loan are as follows:

 

On 11/10/2001 I took out a loan ... for £7369.39 which had £1473.22 PPI and £130.00 Medicare added to it

 

On 10/06/2003 this was rewritten to .. for £9809.68 and £1804.68 PPI.

 

On 31/03/2005 this was rewritten to ... for £11423.67 and £1108.79 MIF.

 

On 14/07/2005 this was rewritten to ... for £13886.71 and £1352.87 MIF.

 

On 29/12/2005 this was rewritten to ... for £14792.00 and £1442.59 MIF

 

On 31/10/2006 a new loan was taken out ... for £8019.62 which had £1485.75 PPI, £180 life-care and £125 homecare with £2768.59 interest added to it.

 

On 03/04/2007 this was rewritten to ... for £14602.15 which had £2425.15 PPI and £175 personal accident plan with £3339.03 interest added.

 

On 05/10/2007 this was rewritten to ... for £26741.20 which had £4506.20 PPI and £10342.54 in interest added to it.

 

On 30/08/2008 this was rewritten to ... for £30514.32 which had £2307.70 PPI added

 

Each of the above loans either had PPI, Life Insurance, MIF, Medicare or personal accident plans added to them. Costing me several £1000 on each one.

 

All of the above were forced upon me by a company called progressive/welcome finance. However the total of all these with regard to the rolling interest charges too far outweighs the sum secured by the charge against my property.

 

I feel it was very irresponsible for to this company to have been constantly refinancing these loans [9 times - some no more than 4 months apart] on the basis they were more affordable, when each loan was already in arrears with numerous additional penalty charges already levied.

 

I politely request that you remove the legal charge you hold and null any remaining outstanding balances due to this history of their Irresponsible Lending.

 

So thus coming to a simple resolution for both parties, without the need for extensive involvement of the fos/FCA/ICO etc nor court cases.

 

I wish to avoid the above said actions, because this could become a very messy situation for all involved.

 

I also started investigating the irresponsible lending complaint concerning the above company before this debt had been sold to yourselves. I am now in contact with the FOS and the FCA regarding this.

 

They have mentioned their hands are tied due to welcome entering in a scheme of arrangement. But in any other circumstance they would be fully investigating and they are keeping everything on file until I contact you the purchaser.

 

I thank you for you time on this matter and look forward to hearing from you within 28 days.

 

Regards

 

 

............

dx100uk posted...

 

 

very close just doing the last loan and its PPI

 

come out is that sadly

even though their statements are in some areas wrong/poor

each was rebated ok

so nothing there

 

until the last loan

doing the spready now

 

certainly a good case for mass irresponsible lending mind

from day one

 

notes.

1st Its Worthy to note

where they did not get you on PPI/life

they got you on MIF

.

Loan ...851 PPI Charged

£196.89 PCM settled for £4691.05

11-10-01 £5000 loan

11-10-01 £1603.22 INS PPI prem ADV [debit]

11-10-01 £765.11 Disp of FEES [debit]

total loan 7369.33

PPI

PPIPCM=21.75% = £42.83 on £196.89 payment

total you paid for PPI was £1441.70

total charged for PPI £1603.22 - not worth bothering about.

as you also got £1005 back for 'fees'

...

 

 

loan ...789 PPI Charged

10-06-03 £1804.68 INS prems [credit]

10-06-03 £1005.00 FEE Disbursement [Credit]

10-06-03 £9809.68 Loan Disp [Debit]

10-06-03 £4691.05 Settlement/payoff [624851]

10-06-03 £627.93 Ins Rebate [credit][624851]

10-06-03 £342.84 fees rebate [credit]

10-06-03 £1804.68 INS PREM ADV [debit]

10-06-03 £1005. Disp of FEES [Debit]

10-06-03 £7000 LOAN DISP to Cust

PPI

10-06-03 PCM was £231.01

PPIPCM=18.4% = £42.50 on £231.01

total charged for PPI was £1804.68

total you actually paid = £1335.57 - not worth it

as you got fees back too

 

 

..........

 

LOAN ....978 MIF CHARGED

31-03-05 £11423.67 rewrite disp

31-03-05 £1343.79 FEE Disp [rebate]

31-03-05 £10079.88 Settlement payment credit

31-03-05 £511.50 Settlement penalty interest Debit

31-03-05 £693.27 INS rebate credit

NO PPI but has MIF & ACCEPTANCE FEE WHEREBY INT HAS BEEN WRONGLY CHARGED ON THEM - AGREEMENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN VOIDED RE:

however loan only ran 4mts nothing worth it

.........

 

LOAN ....216 MIF Charged

14-07-05 £12298.84 transfer/settlement

14-07-05 £1587.87 Fess Disbursal [debit]

14-07-05 £1277.71 fees rebate

14-07-05 £10298.84 Transfer credit

14-07-05 £12.02 SET'L PEN INT debit

14-07-05 £13886.71 Loan Disp

NO PPI but has MIF & ACCEPTANCE FEE WHEREBY INT HAS BEEN WRONGLY CHARGED ON THEM - AGREEMENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN VOIDED RE:

however loan only ran 5mts nothing worth it

.........

 

 

 

LOAN ...722 MIF Charged

29-12-05 £13114.41 Settlement Payment

29-12-05 £1530.23 Fees rebate

29-12-05 £1677.59 disp of fees [debit]

29-12-05 £14792 REWRITE DISP

21-02-06 £13712.03 set'l cheque to cust

21-02-06 £336.43 penalty fees

21-02-06 £1666.25 Fees REbate

NO PPI but has MIF & ACCEPTANCE FEE WHEREBY INT HAS BEEN WRONGLY CHARGED ON THEM - AGREEMENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN VOIDED RE:

however loan only ran 10mts nothing worth it

 

 

/..........

 

 

 

Loan ....661

31-10-06 £1784.62 INS PREM Credit

31-10-06 £235 Fee Disp credit

31-10-06 £8019.62 loan disp to cust

NO PPI but has MIF & ACCEPTANCE FEE WHEREBY INT HAS BEEN WRONGLY CHARGED ON THEM - AGREEMENT SHOULD HAVE BEEN VOIDED RE:

however loan only ran 6mts nothing worth it

 

 

/.............

Loan ....303

03-04-07 £293.48 set pen int

03-04-07 £1204.73 INS rebate

03-04-07 £288.33 Fees rebate

03-04-07 £2600.15 INS premiums credit

03-04-07 £2600.15 INS premiums debit

03-04-07 FEE DISP credit

03-04-07 £235 Fees disp [debit]

03-04-07 £11767 Loan Disp to Cust

PPI

however loan only ran 6mts nothing worth it

 

 

.........

 

Loan ....661

05-10-07 £12826.25 transfer credit [set'l]

05-10-07 £460.73 SET'L pen Int Debit

05-10-07 £1896.39 INS rebate credit

05-10-07 £225.24 FEE rebate debit

05-10-07 £460.72 Pen Fees debit

05-10-07 £225.24 FEE REBATE [credit]

05-10-07 £4506.20 INS PREM [credit]

05-10-07 £235 FEE DISP Credit

05-10-07 £26741.20 Loan Disp DEBIT

PPI

however loan only ran 12mts nothing worth it

 

 

...........

Loan 984

30/09/08 £30514.52 TFR BAL FROM

29/08/08 £2307.70 PPP insurances credit

29/08/08 £30514.52 DISB transfer

PPIPCM = 7.56%

working on spready now

[dx100uk]

if you cant use the irresponsible lending route in a repo case.

 

 

then I bow to ell-enn expert knowledge...