Car stolen ..forgot I had 3 points from 2 years ago on licence

[Guest]

...though it is a fairly new system (re post #24)

[sibod2002]

I just need to point out your Gap insurance will not cover any Mickey mouse extended warranty as optional extras on the finance agreement.

 

 

Hi I don't quite understand what u mean ?

[obiter dictum]

If you got the car from a main dealer you will be fine. A lot of sub prime car finance companies offer extended warranties, mechanical breakdown etc as an optional extra added to the finance agreement. Gap only covers the car finance or price of goods, not these extra insurance products. Think off PPI and banks, it is a racket

[sibod2002]

Yeah it was from the main Audi dealer so I should be ok..just a bit gutted that I will be left with nothing and have to try and find more money now to get a replacement car

[liverpoolluke]

sibod I may be wrong but I'm sure you should receive some of your investment back, you say you have paid deposit & £5000 in payments, you should see some of this money back at least I would think as you have the gap insurance to cover the settlement loss

[sibod2002]

I'll have to talk to both my insurance and the gap insurance to see for certain if I'm entitled to anything

[sibod2002]

Hello

Just a quick update the insurance company today have told me they will be settling the claim but to an 80% proportion value due to what my premium would of been if points declared .

 

I am pleased but my next question is will my GAP insurance cover the extra 20 % or not ?

 

My gap insurance previously said they cover what the invoice sheet was when purchased .

[dacouc]

Hello

Just a quick update the insurance company today have told me they will be settling the claim but to an 80% proportion value due to what my premium would of been if points declared .

 

I am pleased but my next question is will my GAP insurance cover the extra 20 % or not ?

 

My gap insurance previously said they cover what the invoice sheet was when purchased .

 

Your gap policy is unlikely to cover the 20%

[Guest]

could be right there, eg this brief link.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/do-you-need-gap-insurance

what exactly is your type of gap insurance, what do the 'exclusions' say, etc,

 

some fos info

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/GAP-insurance.html

[sibod2002]

It is a "combined gap insurance " policy I will post the exclusions to see what you guys think

 

EXCLUSIONS

THIS INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER ANY CLAIM:

1. if the Insured Vehicle is stolen by any person w ho has access to the keys of the Insured Vehicle including but not limited to family members;

2. the follow ing makes of vehicle are excluded:-

a)

b) 3. in a)

b) c) or

any commercial vehicles over 3.5 tonne;

any imported vehicle unless manufactured as right hand drive and purchased from an authorised UK distributor. respect of any Total Loss w hich occurs w hile the Insured Vehicle is being used for:-

any type of competition or rallies, racing, any type of track day, off road, speed testing, pacemaking or reliability trials; commercial business use of hire and rew ard including and not limited to taxi, courier services and private hire;

an emergency vehicle.

is being driven by any person not holding a valid current licence to drive the Insured Vehicle.

4. in

prescribed by a registered medical practitioner;

respect of any Total Loss by accident when the driver of the Insured Vehicle is intoxicated by alcohol or under the influence of drugs not

5. arisingfromwar,invasion,actsofforeignenemies,hostilities(whetherwarbedeclaredornot),civilwar,rebellion,revolution,insurrection,acts of terrorism, military or usurped power or confiscation or nationalisation or requisition or destruction of or damage to property by or under the order of any government or public or local authority;

6. directly or indirectly caused by or contributed to or arising from ionising radiation, contamination by radioactivity from any nuclear fuel or from any nuclear w aste, from the combustion of nuclear fuel or the radioactive toxic explosive or other hazardous properties of any ex plosive nuclear assembly or nuclear component thereof;

7. in relation to Negative Equity (refer to Definition ‘Negative Equity’);

8. for any VAT element if the Insured are VAT registered;

9. for any excess in respect of the Motor Insurance if a Total Loss of the Insured Vehicle has not resulted in a benefit being paid under this Policy;

10. for any discount given by the Supplying Dealer;

11. if the Total Loss of the Insured Vehicle has been recorded and registered as Category X.

 

Is there anywhere else in my policy where it could mention about not paying adjusted claims ?

 

6. If any information provided to the Insurer or Administrator by the Insured or anyone acting on behalf of the Insured is inaccurate or fraudulent or if the Insured fails to disclose any information in response to a specific request which might reasonably affect the Insurer's decision to provide insurance under this Policy,

 

 

the Insured's right to any benefit under this Policy will end,

and the Insurer shall be entitled to recover any benefit paid,

and costs incurred as a result of any such fraudulent or misleading means.

 

7. If any information under this Policy is fraudulent or is intended to mislead the Insurer

or the Administrator or if fraudulent or misleading means are used by the Insured

or anyone acting on the Insured's behalf to obtain benefit under this Policy,

 

 

the Insured's right to any benefit under this Policy shall end and the Insurer shall be entitled to recover any benefit paid,

and costs incurred as a result of any such fraudulent or misleading means.

 

I found this but as the insurance have accepted my claim I wouldn't say I have been misleading or fraudulent

 

Is their any way I can foward my whole policy onto here somehow?

[Guest]

have a read through it, and cld pdf up the whole agreement

[dacouc]

It's most likely in the definition of how they cover a claim and / or define the market value of the vehicle

 

I found this but as the insurance have accepted my claim I wouldn't say I have been misleading or fraudulent

 

The exclusions you posted, the words "Insurer" and "Administrator" refer to the Gap Insurer, not your vehicle Insurer

[sbaffi]

Broke into my home address and took the keys while I was asleep upstairs .

 

Hello....We are in the same boat....House robbed at night while sleeping and car stolen (Audi A6). I have my claim on hold with pending issues about my wife's driving license but at least you have got a settlement figure.

 

Been with the insurer since 2013, never asked us for any document or proof even if they recorded us with EU licences.

Edited June 23, 2016 by sbaffi

[unclebulgaria67]

20% deduction from claim settlement is much more than 20% of the premium i presume, which would make it attractive to Insurers. Whilst Insurers may be able to do so, i would question whether this is their standard practice in this situation. I would have thought in regard to licence points where it was a minor underwriting issue, that payment of the extra premium was the normal way of dealing with this.

 

What i would suggest is that you challenge the Insurers on this. Advise that you do not wish to delay settlement in the way suggested, however, you wish to test methodology with the FOS under Treating Customers Fairly. Ask them to register a complaint about the 20% settlement deduction rather than paying the extra premium required and consider whether they want this matter to be escalated to the FOS. They would then have to think about it and come back to you.

[Mwynci]

20% deduction from claim settlement is much more than 20% of the premium i presume, which would make it attractive to Insurers. Whilst Insurers may be able to do so, i would question whether this is their standard practice in this situation. I would have thought in regard to licence points where it was a minor underwriting issue, that payment of the extra premium was the normal way of dealing with this.

 

What i would suggest is that you challenge the Insurers on this. Advise that you do not wish to delay settlement in the way suggested, however, you wish to test methodology with the FOS under Treating Customers Fairly. Ask them to register a complaint about the 20% settlement deduction rather than paying the extra premium required and consider whether they want this matter to be escalated to the FOS. They would then have to think about it and come back to you.

 

Totally agree, i thought proportional settlement was frowned upon and no clause in most policies anymore?

[unclebulgaria67]

Totally agree, i thought proportional settlement was frowned upon and no clause in most policies anymore?

 

I think it would be an interesting question for the FOS.

 

Is missing points from a licence, the same as underinsurance ? You might apply a reduction for underinsurance, because you would not backdate an increase in cover. But for points you would correct the policy and collect the relevant premium. Whilst the risk was different to that presented to Insurers, it is not related to value of car.

[sibod2002]

Thank you for all the replies .. Do you think I should write back to the u underwriting and ask for a premium adjustment instead of proportionate settlement ?

[unclebulgaria67]

Thank you for all the replies .. Do you think I should write back to the u underwriting and ask for a premium adjustment instead of proportionate settlement ?

 

As said already, you should raise this question as part of a complaint, where you suggest that this would be interesting for the view of the FOS to be taken by escalating it to them if necessary. Ask them to think again and come back to you with a fully considered response.

 

I should imagine the reduced settlement is much more than the extra premium.

[sibod2002]

Yes the reduced settlement is roughly 4K less than what the full value is where the added premium is £900 .

[dacouc]

""proportionate" responses

 

The Act sets out what an insurer can do when a consumer fails to take reasonable care. The remedies are the same as those that we have always recommended.

 

Where we decide that a consumer has not taken reasonable care but that this wasn't deliberate, we generally say the insurer should take a proportionate approach. This means that the insurer should base its approach on what it would have done if the consumer had taken reasonable care and provided the correct information.

 

So if the insurer would have accepted the risk but charged the consumer a higher premium, we usually say that the insurer should consider the claim. If the claim is valid, the insurer should pay it in proportion to the premium that was actually paid. For example, if the consumer had been paying half the premium they should have, then we will say the consumer should get half the settlement if the claim is accepted.

 

However, if the insurer decides to charge the additional premium and settle the claim in full instead of settling the claim proportionately, we may also decide this is fair - provided the insurer deducts the additional premium from the claim settlement and does not put the consumer in a worse position than they would be in with a proportionate settlement.

 

Where the consumer hasn't made a claim and the misrepresentation was discovered for some other reason, we generally say it is fair for the insurer to charge an additional premium.

 

If we think it is likely the insurer would have applied different terms to the policy if it had been given correct information, we may decide that it is reasonable for these to apply retrospectively. In some cases, this will mean that the consumer's claim is no longer covered.

 

If we think it is likely the insurer would not have offered any cover if it had been given correct information, we may say that it can avoid the policy and not pay any claim(s) made under it. But before we do, we will look very carefully at whether the consumer failed to take reasonable care.

 

If we decide the consumer did take reasonable care and so it was not fair for the insurer to have avoided the policy, we are likely to say that it should treat the policy as if it was in force and assess the claim - subject to the policy terms and conditions.

 

If we decide that cover should be reinstated in this way, our £150,000 award limit does not apply - because we are telling the insurer to re-instate a policy and then deal with a claim. The award limit applies only where compensation is a money award for financial loss the consumer has suffered - not as a limit to any future amount that is paid only if the insurer accepts the claim.

 

Where the consumer hasn't made a claim and the misrepresentation was discovered for some other reason, we generally say it is fair for the insurer to amend the policy terms retrospectively – provided we agree that the consumer did not take reasonable care. We may also say it is fair for the insurer to change any extra premium that would have been payable."

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/misrepresentation-and-non-disclosure.htm

[sibod2002]

So they are doing what they are entitled to do and paying a percentage ?

[unclebulgaria67]

So they are doing what they are entitled to do and paying a percentage ?

 

I think you should raise the question, because i am not sure a 20% reduction in claims settlement is fair in relation to points. I can only recall Insurers charging the relevant premium backdated.

[sibod2002]

To update..I have been offered a market value of £21500 which has decreased to a settlement figure of roughly 17k..insurers have said for me to inform the GAP of their value and go from there . The invoice price is £22500. So I am just hoping now that GAP will be lenient and cover the 20% reduced figure and not the original insurers value ..wishful thinking though I'm guessing.

[Guest]

you never know.

wld it be poss to see what the gap providers wld agree to, prior to formally accepting the main insurers offer?

[sibod2002]

Yes I am going to ring them on Monday and explain to them the offer and maybe foward the letter that the insurance have sent me which breaks everything down.