The European Union.....In or Out?

[citizenB]

What concerns me is that even if he gets what he wants and the Eu signs off on it - he then holds the referendum in June - I understand the MEPs can scupper things but that would be AFTER the referendum!!

 

No way are the trough delving MEPs going to be happy at losing their jobs, which they no doubt would if we were to exit !

[citizenB]

It would be cheaper to keep the existing MEPs as MPs than pay billions to the EU

 

Hmm, aren't most of the MEPs failed MPs ?

 

It is also my understanding that David Cameron wants to devolve a lot of responsibility to the Local Authorities and reduce the number of MPs by at least 100 !

[citizenB]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-fear-losing-seats-if-david-cameron-cuts-constituencies-10381467.html

 

From 650 to 600 so only reduced by 50. Although it would appear he is facing a rebellion on that !

 

 

Some had hoped the plans would be abandoned following their election victory, but the Prime Minister has signalled his determination to deliver on a promise in the party’s manifesto.

 

As many as 19 seats won by the Conservatives could vanish as a result of the move, along with around 20 held by Labour and four of the Liberal Democrats’ remaining eight constituencies. From 13 July, Tory MPs from different regions will be called in by party officials to be briefed on the impact on their area of the abolition of 50 seats.

[citizenB]

http://www.sunnation.co.uk/millions-could-be-saved-under-tory-plans-to-slash-number-of-mps/

 

A staggering £11.6 million could be saved under Conservative proposals to axe the number of MPs.

 

Within the Tory manifesto, David Cameron promised to lower the number of parliamentary constituencies from 650 to 600 as part of his pledge to “cut the cost of politics.”

 

And that’s exactly what will happen if the plans are approved.

 

 

So there would be no room for MEPs

[citizenB]

And, according a report from 5 days ago, despite the cross party committee saying that the reduction was unjustified, he is going ahead with the plans .. well done that man !!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/12/number-of-mps-to-cut-from-650-to-600

[citizenB]

Of course the Eastern European states were not happy about this. Think of the £millions that was being sent home to benefit their economy ! Do we even know if these children the money is being sent back for even exist ? And if they do, does this mean that they will now bring their families with them and put more pressure on an already straining infrastructure in this country !

 

 

Child benefit for the children of EU migrants living overseas will now be paid at a rate based on the cost of living in their home country - applicable immediately for new arrivals and from 2020 for the 34,000 existing claimants

 

 

Mr Cameron had originally wanted a complete ban on migrants sending child benefit abroad but had to compromise after some eastern European states rejected that and also insisted that existing claimants should continue to receive the full payment.

 

Why are these countries not providing better paid work for their own citizens ?

[citizenB]

Why do we have to allow them in, in the first place ?

 

 

Home Secretary Theresa May said the deal includes "important reforms to prevent the abuse of free movement".

 

"It means we keep control of our right to decide which criminal justice measures we participate in. It strengthens our ability to deport dangerous foreign criminals. And while European countries must work together to tackle terrorism, it makes clear that our national security is ultimately our responsibility, not Europe’s.

 

The EU is far from perfect, and no one should be in any doubt that this deal must be part of an ongoing process of change and reform – crucial if it is to succeed in a changing world. But in my view - for reasons of security, protection against crime and terrorism, trade with Europe, and access to markets around the world - it is in the national interest to remain a member of the European Union."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-35601369

 

[citizenB]

Following this thread as things heat up.

 

Wonder where Boris stands on this.In or out.

Quote-

Boris Johnson will come off the fence in the European referendum battle on Friday — and a new poll reveals he could be a game-changer in the historic vote.

 

The Mayor’s promise to say which side he is on came as an Ipsos MORI survey showed one in three people regard him as “important” to deciding whether they vote In or Out.

 

Speculation that he will put his weight behind David Cameron’s campaign to remain in a reformed EU grew after he pledged to “make everything abundantly clear by the end of the week”.

Is his view that important.

What do you think.

 

He has been rather coy hasn't he ? I guess he will weigh up what he will get out of any decision he makes - I doubt the UK citizenry will figure in his thoughts.

 

I rather suspect it will get a lot warmer as time marches on, TO

[citizenB]

Well I noticed that Angela Merkel was implying that they too would be thinking to apply the same formula to child benefits as the UK

 

I think she personally is worried about her position as German citizens are beginning to moan loud and clear about the amount of immigration !

[citizenB]

I think the following statement from Michael Gove, the Justice secretary says it all for me. Too many decisions are made by un elected officials.

 

For weeks now I have been wrestling with the most difficult decision of my political life. But taking difficult decisions is what politicians are paid to do. No-one is forced to stand for Parliament, no-one is compelled to become a minister.

 

If you take on those roles, which are great privileges, you also take on big responsibilities. I was encouraged to stand for Parliament by David Cameron and he has given me the opportunity to serve in what I believe is a great, reforming Government. I think he is an outstanding Prime Minister. There is, as far as I can see, only one significant issue on which we have differed. And that is the future of the UK in the European Union.

It pains me to have to disagree with the Prime Minister on any issue.

 

My instinct is to support him through good times and bad. But I cannot duck the choice which the Prime Minister has given every one of us. In a few months’ time we will all have the opportunity to decide whether Britain should stay in the European Union or leave. I believe our country would be freer, fairer and better off outside the EU. And if, at this moment of decision, I didn’t say what I believe I would not be true to my

convictions or my country.

 

I don’t want to take anything away from the Prime Minister’s dedicated efforts to get a better deal for Britain. He has negotiated with courage and tenacity. But I think Britain would be stronger outside the EU.

 

My starting point is simple. I believe that the decisions which govern all our lives, the laws we must all obey and the taxes we must all pay should be decided by people we choose and who we can throw out if we want change. If power is to be used wisely, if we are to avoid corruption and complacency in high office, then the public must have the right to change laws and Governments at election time. But our membership of the

European Union prevents us being able to change huge swathes of law and stops us being able to choose who makes critical decisions which affect all our lives.

 

Laws which govern citizens in this country are decided by politicians from other nations who we never elected and can’t throw out. We can take out our anger on elected representatives in Westminster but whoever is in Government in London cannot remove or reduce VAT, cannot support a steel plant through troubled times, cannot build the houses we need where they’re needed and cannot deport all the individuals who shouldn’t be in this country. I believe that needs to change. And I believe that both the lessons of our past and the shape of the future make the case for change compelling."

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-35601369

[citizenB]

I am sorry to hear/see this is going to be a dirty tricks campaign.

 

If any of these issues were of concern, how come we didnt hear about them previously ?

 

I was also very surprised to see David Cameron slinging mud in the HoC.

 

This type of campaigning should be left to the Liberals and Labour.. they are far better at shovelling sh*T

[citizenB]

Nah, it won't stop raining

 

Or the wretched weeds growing

[citizenB]

Do you grow weed

 

[citizenB]

Can the general public question Cameron on his tour or will we be denied in the name of security ?

 

I think ever since Tony Blair was blind sided by an audience a few years ago, politicians only speak to "invited" audiences. I would imagine that anyone who applies for a ticket would be vetted from beyond the womb !!

[citizenB]

As has been pointed out frequently - we are a small island nation. Which, over the past 20 years or so has been changed radically - with the citizens of the UK having to adapt and change with no obligation on those wishing to come here, for whatever reason, to adapt and change with us. That is not a generalisation - but for the majority of migrants to this country, the minute they have their foot on our soil are wanting things done the way THEY are used to !

 

You might want to have a read of an article from 2002, which covers the Ugandan Asians that were forced to leave Uganda in 1972. One thing that simply lifts off the page is the acknowledgment the Asians were party to their own downfall. Aside from which, the larger amount of those expelled (80,000) 30,000 by far the largest group, came to Britain.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2399549.stm

 

 

But some have taken the view that however wrong the actions of Idi Amin, the Asian community did not exactly endear itself to Ugandans.

 

Yasmin Alibhai Brown is a newspaper columnist. She and her family left Uganda in 1972.

 

Looking back, she says that she still misses her homeland but also loves London, where she now lives

 

"Many Ugandan Asians have similar ambiguous views - that so much was lost and even more gained when Amin banished us from a country we had helped build".

 

She says that the Asians did little to share their wealth and skills, they sent money out of the country illegally and "most Asians were deeply racist, unable to imagine marrying Africans and living with them as equals".

 

She says that the president also reminded them that relatively few Asians had been killed in Uganda but that half a million Ugandans died in the wars that began during Mr Amin's period in power.

 

She concluded that when looking back on the expulsion of the Asians, people needed to remember the truth about what happened.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/11/bradford-stabbing-prompts-uk-asians-to-warn-of-racism-towards-black-people

 

Another article from 2015 where Asians are pretty much advised to look among themselves with regards to racism - against black people !

 

I noticed during some of the interviews that were done by the BBC, a lot of Asian people were also seriously against the taking of more migrants - and it didnt seem to matter whether they were asylum seekers or economic ?

 

It is my belief that migration, is one of, if not the main issue, that is being given as a reason for those wishing to exit the EU. Resolve that and you will likely find that people will not concern themselves about anything else.

[citizenB]

I have a thing for German women. Don't know what it is, but there are exceptions.

 

I think Farage is married to a German lady, who at one time was employed as his secretary using his EU MEP expenses. Kind of ironic ,

 

My paternal grandfather married a German lady after his first wife died. She was a very nice person , sadly this caused a huge rift within the family and when he died, Nana Gita was made to feel so uncomfortable, she returned to her birth Country.

[citizenB]

I think Greece had already shown they were not trustworthy with finances - so would they use any money provided to them for the benefit of the migrants, for the migrants ?

 

It was inevitable that Turkey would pretty much blackmail the EU into providing more cash or other benefits.

[citizenB]

I think people have to be honest and say what in particular they don't like about the EU.

 

In my opinion, immigration is too complex an issue to blame the EU. You ask people in Germany, Spain etc what their concerns are and it will be immigration. In the US Presidential debate immigration is also a big issue. Even Mexicans with US citizenship have backed Trump in trying to keep other Mexicans out of the US.

 

I suspect in China they have an issue in some parts with cheap migrant labour from country areas migrating to cities to compete for jobs, keeping wages down.

 

Whether the UK is part of the EU or not, population numbers will increase and as jobs get replaced by technology, there will be issues. Voting for Brexit ls likely to lead to a large influx of people before the exit date. There has already been an increase since the referendum date was set. Staying in the EU means that people have more freedom of movement and they can go to live in other countries.

 

Immigration will always be blamed when the economy has tanked.. remember how Hitler came to power !

 

You have big business employing in other countries - eg call centres

zero hour contracts and cheap immigrant labour.

 

Government and big business claiming that employees in this country are too lazy ! When all business want is cheap labour that they can get shot of at a moments notice.

 

Aside from that, I find it quite strange that government say.. "Brussels/EU" say we must do this or that - that Brussels/EU is responsible for the excessive red tape - so why are government so keen to keep us IN ?

[citizenB]

Look North is in Rotterdam and quite a few of the Dutch are not happy with the EU either

 

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/02/dutch-also-want-a-eu-membership-referendum-poll-shows/

 

 

A majority of people in the Netherlands want a referendum to be held on Dutch membership of the EU similar to the one taking place in Britain in June, according to a new poll by Maurice de Hond. In his weekly survey of Dutch political opinion, De Hond found 53% support a referendum in the Netherlands, while 44% are opposed. If there were a vote, 44% would vote to stay in the EU and 43% against.

 

 

 

And of course Britain will get the blame for stirring things up within the EU

 

 

The Netherlands is holding a referendum on the EU’s treaty with Ukraine on April 6. That is widely being seen as a test of public support for the European Union but will not be binding on the cabinet. Dutch MPs are concerned that concessions made by the European ministers in an effort to keep Britain in the EU will have an impact on other EU countries’ demands.

 

 

[citizenB]

What I would like to see is a proper signed off audit of the EUs finances..

 

http://www.ukip.org/eu_accounts_fail_audit_for_19th_year_in_a_row

 

As at December 2013 - the EU accounts failed for the 19th year in a row !

 

"The EU's budget will always be mismanaged; the system and procedures are so complex that they are open to large-scale abuse and fraud," writes UKIP's Jonathan Arnott MEP.

 

"Far better, surely, not to send money to Brussels in the first place... European government does not work, will not work and can never work.

 

"For the 19th year in a row, the EU's Court of Auditors has refused to give a clean bill of health to the EU's accounts for the year ending 31st December 2013. The EU's Court of Auditors registered an 'adverse opinion' about the legality and regularity of EU payments, blasting them as being "materially affected by error" - with almost €7 billion being paid out improperly.

 

 

"With multinationals claiming small business relief, farms claiming buildings as grazing land and officials pocketing 5 times the going rate for their jobs, I wonder whether people realise just how bad the situation is in terms of mismanagement of the EU's funds - at a time when Britain is being asked to hand over an additional €2.1 billion to the European Union within weeks?

[citizenB]

Further to my last, you are obviously for 'out' as you only linked to one side, the out side of that article. Jackson is, as I said before, a tosser and knows absolutely nothing about anything.

What you failed to mention was the article on the very next page:

 

The proud isle that floated free... and HASN'T sunk! No regrets for Greenland since it became the only nation to quit Europe

 

Greenland former PM Lars-Emil Johansen led campaign to leave EU in 1982

They voted in a referendum to leave the union in highly symbolic move

He has no regrets of his choice as Britain weighs up whether to follow suit

 

Link

 

 

 

 

Sadly it is now 2016 and far more damage has been done to this country in the years since 1982. We have seen our fishing industry all but disappear - how long would it take to restore this ?

 

I guess the only good thing is that we never fully integrated by accepting the Euro as our currency.

[citizenB]

Some of the media who are pro Brexit are playing games to fool people.

 

See the second graph in this article, where they are trying to get the image of an increasing leave support into the publics minds.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3492874/Brexit-edge-referendum-battle-voters-likely-turn-David-Cameron-s-election-mastermind-declares-studying-new-polls.html

 

I find this behaviour quite sinister. The owners of the Daily Mail obviously have an interest in Brexit, which has nothing to do with the ordinary people in the UK.

 

What I find sinister is the large multi national companies who want to stay in are allowing their premises to be used as platforms for David Cameron to pimp his Remain campaign. This is not democratic, it pressures the employees into thinking their jobs might be at risk so they must vote the way their Chief Executive wants them to !

 

Why does IDS (Brexit) say we are MORE at risk of a Paris Style attack if we stay in and the Cameron Crew say we are less secure if we leave ?

 

I want to see a more reasoned debate on the issues not self interest propaganda or the promotion of fear of loss of jobs, terrorists, etc.

[citizenB]

I found this earlier in regards to business and Europe. I felt it was quite a reasonable article

 

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d10a91e3-854e-40ee-a2bc-87bc7acafcb5

 

Except I didnt understand any of it ?

[citizenB]

I received one of those today, conniff

[citizenB]

I hope people use their brains when casting their votes, whatever way they decide to vote. I think some people will vote on negative media stories, which only put one inaccurate side.

 

I still haven't heard of any positives, though Uncle B ?