ACF Car Finance / TFC and bill of sale

[scott6kids]

Hey Caggers,

 

I am after some advise ref a vehicle that we purchased from ACF Car Finance in December 2011. Since we have had the car there appears to have been an lot of things that have actually gone wrong with the car ranging from a new clutch, new gear box, new suspension, new central locking, failed coil pack, misfiring cylinders and knackered suspension to list the ones that come to mind as I write this post.

 

Since we had had the car, we have followed the recommended service arrangement and had a full service every 12 months and really have looked after the car. With having so many issues, one of the garages we went to for repairs did comment on faults of this nature being common with a vehicle that has been neglected and asked if we were sure of the cars service history before we actually purchased it.

 

When we looking at the service book it was pretty clean that the stamps for various services were actually made up, the same pen, same handwriting etc. and none of the boxes were tickets. We have even spoken to Vauxhall to verify the service history and they have said that there is not record of any 2 of the 3 services on the book which were apparently completed at a Vauxhall dealer.

 

We raised this with ACF who said that it was not their policy to check the service history of cars they purchased as they carry out their own check to ensure that vehicles are fit for purpose.

 

Now, what's brought the need to create this post on is that we have just been on the receiving end of a major gearbox and clutch failure on the car, a repair that is set to cost me £1622 to fix a car that is worth just over £2200. We still have 2 years left on the finance however the garage has informed us that they don't believe the vehicle will last the full duration of the finance due to the level of faults we are experiencing.

 

Do I have any ground to ask for the finance to be suspected or the vehicle to be returned to ACF ? the cost of the current repair is approx 70% of the car current value and I fear the next big issue will be pretty much game over.

 

The issue of the fictional service history must have some weight ?

 

Is there anything that can be done to help me get out from in-between this rock & hard place?

 

Thanks

 

Scott

[Conniff]

What is the car and how long have you had it ?

[scott6kids]

Hi,

 

its a Vauxhall Zafira 58 plate and I have had it since the 30th December 2011

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[Conniff]

Ok, and you are on your second gearbox amongst other things.

 

 

You can take it to the finance company if it is Hire Purchase as the car is theirs and not yours, they are assumed to have bought it not you.

 

 

If you are halfway or more with your payments, you can just hand the car back to them with no more payments due.

[scott6kids]

Does this apply when they use a bill of sale ?

[Conniff]

No unfortunately. first off, was the bill of sale registered with the high court within 7 days of you signing it ?

If not, then it is unenforceable, so if you don't have paperwork showing that, you should check with the court.

[Conniff]

Ok, I've just found this, paste it into your address line, open it and have a read:

 

 

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05631/SN05631.pdf

[scott6kids]

cheers - I need to check that the BOS was lodged within the correct time and it wasn't then do I have a leg to stand on to claim Voluntary Termination?

Edited August 23, 2015 by scott6kids

[Conniff]

It will be as if the agreement was never made in the beginning. It's not a legitimate agreement and he can't enforce it so yes just dump the car on his doorstep.

[scott6kids]

Stupid question however the car was purchased on the 28/12/2011 , I have emailed QBEnforcement to ask if / when the BOS was registered however will the fact that it was the Christmas & New Year week go for or against me should the BOS not have been registered with 7 days?

 

Thanks

[Conniff]

I'm not certain but I would think it is working days.

[theoldrouge]

please confirm your agreement is a credit agreement secured by a bill of sale

 

 

VT applies to HP/Conditional Sale agreements only not to BOS

 

As long as it was registered correctly and stamped then assume it is valid

[theoldrouge]

Probably best to post up your agreement minus pers details

[scott6kids]

It's a credit agreement secured by a bill of sale.

 

How do I check when or if the bill of sale was recorded and within the correct timescale.

 

To be honest, my hope is that there is loop hole that aCF have left open for me to get out of this agreement and arrange another vehicle .

 

During the 44 months we have had this vehicle we have not missed any payments etc .

 

Thanks

[theoldrouge]

Very few loopholes with logbook loans nowadays since the oft as was lost its legal challenge

 

Here is the general guide as to how to check.....

 

Three golden rules for Logbbok Loans

 

1)No matter how desperate you are to purchase a car, or raise cash, NEVER consider this type of Finance

These loans are designed purely for the benefit of the lenders. With APRs of 400+%, little consumer protection, and aggressive debt collectionicon practices

they should be avoided at all costs.

 

2)When purchasing a used car from whatever source,private or trade, ALWAYS do a FULL GENUINE HPI CHECK

costing around £20, these come with a guarantee against any form of existing finance, including lbl's

 

3)If you have any problem with a Logbook Loan, your first step is ALWAYS to check that the Bill Of Sale has been registered with the High Court. You can do this here-

 

to check if registered

 

Contact Details

 

QB Enforcement Section

Room E15-17

Royal Courts of Justice

Strand

London

WC2A 2LL

DX 44450 Strand

 

Telephone: 020 7947 7772

Fax: 0870 324 0024

Email: [email protected].g ov.uk (No Spaces)

 

You may read on the internet that your BOSicon will be void if witnessed by an employee of your lbl lender

 

Since the OFT( as was) lost the attestation case on appeal by 2 to1 this is NOT the case

 

full details here http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean

 

Logbook loans are a form of credit dating back to the Victorian era, derived from the 1878/1882 Bills Of Sale Acts, with terms and conditions to match in many cases.

 

Problems are manyfold from extortionate charges by lenders for calling a customer, to repossessions where owners have been left at the side of a busy road, unable to get to work, and even sexual harassment via debt collection.

 

Poor practices abound, unsurprising when there is no incentive for lenders to ensure their customers understand the terms or can afford the repayments.

 

In fact the very nature of this form of finance could be seen to encourage bad behaviour – why carry out affordability checks if a single missed payments means you get to keep the money and takeaway the car?

 

How does it work?

 

When you take out a logbook loan you will be asked to hand over your vehicle’s logbook or vehicle registration document, which proves you are the registered keeper of the vehicle.

 

You’ll also have to sign a credit agreement and a form called a ‘bill of sale’. This means the lender now owns your vehicle on a temporary basis but you are still able to use it so long as you meet all loan repayments. These documents are recognised by law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland but are not used in Scotland.

 

The law only recognises a bill of sale if the lender registers it with the High Court. If it’s not registered, the lender must get a court’s approval to repossess your vehicle. You should check if the bill of sale is registered.

 

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

 

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

 

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

[theoldrouge]

In my opinion your best option may well be to try negotiations with ACF, to come to an arrangement to settle the agreement

 

pointing out all the faults with the vehicle

 

They have an obligation under the FCA guidance ,principle 6 (PRIN) to treat customers fairly, and the FCA currently have logbook loan companies

under severe scrutiny

[theoldrouge]

Some reading for you

 

https://small-firms.fca.org.uk/consumer-credit-research-logbook-loans?field_fcasf_sector=226&field_fcasf_page_category=unset

[scott6kids]

Thanks,

 

I have contacted the courts ref when the bill of sale was registered with them and they don't seem to know what I am asking.

 

They keep referring to an execution date and who executed an enforcement.

 

Is there a particulate terminology I should be using ?

 

Thanks

[scott6kids]

I have just gone back to the courts and explained my situation and the reason for me wanting to know the dates of when the bill was registered .

[scott6kids]

After much email tennis with the courts they have finally confirmed that they have a bill of sale registered however will not confirm the date that it was registered with them until I pay them £45 as a fee to search the bill of sale register ? is that right?

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[theoldrouge]

Correct, however I would warn you that I have heard of many cases when the bos was registered after the 7days,

 

but this has not created the loophole you may hope for

[scott6kids]

Thanks - my original understanding was that the credit agreement would not be valid of the BOS was not registered within 7 days - that's what I am trying to find out.

 

Have I got this all wrong or is what I am doing nothing a waste ?

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[theoldrouge]

Once a bos has been registered by the high court, it is very difficult to have it declared void

 

By all means check, but imo post no16 offers you a better chance of some solution

[scott6kids]

Quick update - I have a settlement figure however TFC are refusing to negotiate on any reduction .

 

Apparently they have a policy of not negotiating with customer ref settlements - I spoke to a person at the complaints line who really didn't care .

 

I explained that I needed to get rid of it he car via part exchanging but that did leave me with £1600 negative equity however the response was pretty much "tough"

[scott6kids]

just sent a letter to their complaints email address listing all the faults and approx. cost in repairs we have paid out and asking if they would reduce the settlement figure by £1625 to match the valuation offered by a new dealership as a part ex. These figures do also match with the valuation based on other websites.

 

I have asked them to treat me fairly and said that spending over £3000 in repairs in addition to the annual service and standard maintenance costs should carry some weight in reducing the settlement figure.

 

Fingers crossed.